We should judge people by their words and acts

Touring through Europe, singer of the band “Okean Elzy” Svyatoslav Vakarchuk issued a philosophical lectures and argued with students in London, Paris, Barcelona.

Svyatoslav Vakarchuk performed on a mixture of languages ​​- in English, Ukrainian, in Russian. Fragments of the speech and answers to questions in Paris in Oriental Languages ​​and Cultures Institute (INALCO).

– Every day, Ukrainians are discussing, where is Ukraine? Are we moving to Europe, we remain in place, if we go to the East. Europe to be European – these expressions every day use policy analysts, the students in the audience. I always ask the question: Do the Ukrainians know what to be European? Does it mean geographical location? No, otherwise we would have been Europe: we have never been Africa, Asia or Australia – we have always been on the European continent. If we talk about political things, it’s the EU? But the Swiss – they did not the Europeans?

For me to be European means to share certain values, called European. This, of course, conditional. Someone joked that the country with the “most European” values ​​- this is the United States. So what is the Western values ​​and whether the idea of ​​them by the Ukrainians with Western values ​​are the same?

There are two values: freedom of choice and respect for human dignity. Others can be derived from the first two. The high quality of European life – all derived from these two values. Perhaps my words seem banal, but in reality there are many values ​​of the world that people prefer the freedom of choice. For example, security. In many parts of the world is a core value and people will never prefer the freedom of security.

It is not obvious that these two European values ​​make people happier. Personally, I’m happier than they do, and probably the majority of people living in Europe. Perhaps Europeans do not even think about it, because their parents and grandparents thought about it, and for them these values ​​were available from the outset.

Something that came up in Judaism – this was the first invention of the definition of freedom of choice. Europe has taken more than 1,000 years to get used to these new values. It’s like learning to drive a new car. All the same, as if you drove a diesel or petrol car, and then you gave teslamobil. It’s different. It took several centuries, and people have learned to drive teslamobil correctly, and he went very quickly.

But in the XIII-XIV centuries, Europe was underdeveloped compared to, for example, with China. But at some point the wheel zavraschalos. Democratic elections, market economy – all this happened in 200 years, it is very fast. And today we have a Europe familiar to us. I believe that all of these effects have been made possible because the Europeans have chosen this particular value – freedom. Because everything else is derived from it.

Free and responsible people eager to make big discoveries, to use them for other purposes, be turned into profit, have a healthy competition in the economy, which obliges you to raise the quality of work. Obviously, if you have the freedom of choice, it is as strong wings, but you also help the weak. That’s what I have to European values. Of course, this ideal picture, there are many side effects, but, despite this, the freedom of choice – the best remedy against poverty and the path to prosperity.

Going back to the Ukraine. I think that what is happening now in Ukraine – it is a struggle between the two main mutually exclusive values: security and freedom. If you want to make safety its core value, you have to give up freedom. Not necessarily, but sometimes, to be safe, you must give up the idea of ​​freedom. If you choose freedom, then you must be prepared for the fact that sometimes you will not be safe, and you have to fight for this freedom. Some are wondering: Is it possible to combine them? As the core values ​​- no. As mechanisms – yes. Security – is now working mechanism in a democratic society. But the core values ​​you can not combine them.

What is happening in Ukraine? It is known that part of the country used to be under the influence of the more eastern values, among which the main – safety. A freedom of choice was not a typical Ukrainian worth up to today. In Western Ukraine, this value is more organic because of historical reasons, Western Ukraine has been part of the Western system of values ​​- in any case, was closer to her. But even when Ukraine became independent, it was not the time to raise this issue.

Two revolutions took place in Ukraine, due to many factors. Because of the social stratification within the country of open borders, due to the fact that, as Thomas Friedman said the world was flat, we have the internet and the relationship between the people of today are incredible. Many of us, of course, to travel: Europe, Ukraine, America, Russia. All this contributed to the fact that the Ukrainians have come to realize that freedom – is a very good medicine, the basis for future prosperity.

What happened during the first Maidan, and especially during the second? I think it is a clash between different values. And on this strung policy, the economy and everything else. But I am deeply convinced that we are talking about values. What happened during the “orange revolution”, and especially what happened recently – it is a clash of values. From this stems and politics, and economics. Just as in science, we start with the elementary particles, despite the fact that we can not see them with the naked eye. It seems trivial, but it is not. There is something that binds the nation. Today we have a divided nation.

– You’re talking about values, about the situation in Ukraine. But this is a war, aggression, and really, if the values ​​were the same for all Ukrainians, it would not have happened? No one attacks the United States, but we can not say that all Americans the same values.

– I’m with this totally disagree. If you have a family, whose members do not share the same values, anyone can come and destroy it. If you have a strong family, then no matter how strong and hostile neighbor, then, in some way, a reason to attack you will not. This is what I believe.

If you delve into the history of what happened when the Americans, or rather, immigrants from England decided to defend its values? They immediately got war. And if they do not share the same values, they would be very easy to break.

Look at today’s Israel. It is surrounded by countries that do not even recognize it. But they very much want to survive, because they have values ​​and ideas that unite them.

What I’m talking about values, it does not mean that I deny the existence of aggression against Ukraine. No, I just admit it. But what I want to say, if we were united, they could not have attacked us. And even if attacked, it would be much harder to make us lose.

Today’s Europeans may have different views on life, but the values ​​they share: freedom of choice, responsibility, desire to cooperate with each other. They no longer think about it: they simply are inherent in these values. It’s like a high level of hemoglobin in the blood, when you live at a high altitude. Unfortunately, for the part of Ukrainians it is not. Look at the Europeans: they do not wait for the king, the king, and if the president commits the wrong steps, a year his rating drops below zero. But it does not take place in Ukraine. Of Ukrainians are ready to suffer for centuries, because they have been enslaved to the XIX century, because it was the Soviet Union for 70 years, because all this undermined the person’s ability to think and make decisions and to be responsible. And those who have tried, have been subjected to repression, killed, relocated to Siberia and so on.

– But you can not change people’s mentality.

– The mentality is not in our DNA. Let’s say that the atoms and molecules also have the mentality. Mentality – this is what you learned when you were a kid. Even if you blame the mentality of something, then all you need to do – it’s just a walk in a different way, not as your parents. It is not easy, but possible. We can change the color of the eyes and other parts of the body and change the mentality of even cheaper. The easiest way to say, “This is our mentality, and there’s nothing you can do about it.” This is bullshit. This position is a weak man, weak people.

What happened in Korea? There has been a monstrous corruption. And this was due to the mentality of Koreans. Look at South Korea today – it is one of the most developed countries. Corruption is not defeated until the end, but it has already won, prosperous nation. And look at North Korea. But this is one nation, and fifty years ago, they had the same mentality.

We need friends in the West. We are not talking about money, sanctions, tanks and bombs. We hope that we can help with education, with ideas. Sometimes one comes to you and asks for money, but to give him the money right away – not the best help for him. And you need to sit down with him to talk about his life and try to change it. And then he would go and earn their own money. And we (especially me) are waiting for America and Europe is of such assistance. And it means much more than the formal number of zeros.

The first thing to rely on education. If we want to change, you need to work on it every day. This is a social voluntarism: enough to vote. Every day, working in the garden, a kitchen garden, mending gate of the house, it is necessary to set an example of European behavior.

Finally and most importantly, and this is not so easy to achieve. It is necessary to achieve continuity. It’s as if you put a flower, you need sun, so he grew up. It is necessary to ensure that the country and follow the same rules in the future. And not only in the values ​​and reform the economy.

What the young and not so young Ukrainians, my brothers and sisters are engaged in Ukraine now – to protect the most precious thing they have – their children’s lives, that is for future generations. And this is something for which I am eternally grateful. We should be proud of these people, because they are free. Regardless of what happens in the future – I hope we will succeed, but in any case we know that they are our heroes and they erected monuments. But they do not want to be heroes – they are simply busy with their business.

On 1 December last year for the first time it became clear that the Maidan – this is a great event. Then I was there. People did not know where it will end. Happy ending is still there, but people are still willing to stand there and fight. And the more people, the more likely a happy ending. I have my own thoughts on the reform politicians, practical steps, I have an idea. But do not ask me what to do. You just need to change the mindset. If we truly free people, the probability that Ukraine will become a “club member” of wealthy nations, the club of European nations, would be enormous.

As Pol Makkartni said, “The Beatles,” the leader of my favorite band, “it’s a long winding road,” but I hope that all of us have a bit of signal lights for the road to it was clean and clear.

Only when I have chosen to live with these values, I realized that I never give up on them. I can not force you to do the same, but I guarantee you that this is a good choice.

– You have a short time the deputy of the Verkhovna Rada, and then handed over the mandate. Why? What was your experience there?

– Would you like a joke? The main purpose there was to withdraw from parliament to parliament for me. I think, at least, people now know that at least someone can become a member of parliament and leave it without any obligation, simply because that is his wish. As far as I know, I’m now the only member of Parliament, who left it of their own accord, not because of specific reasons.

For me it was a matter of principle. I went there not then, to get the podium, or take bribes – I’m not. I had three options: to become like the most. Second – to remain in the minority and feel like a hero of the film “One Flew Over the Cuckoo’s Nest.” Well, the third option was – just go away and keep doing what I’m doing, but more efficiently and outside the parliament. I chose the third option and still believe that it was the best decision. I do not know whether it is true I am again in the policy (which I do not), but maybe yes. But before that I would like to work more efficiently, without being a member of Parliament.

I will be happy if the policy will pass me by. That is, if the policy does not call for me, it would mean that society and so focused on the values ​​that I share, and goes in the right direction. I am often asked: what is your dream in regard to Ukraine? I answer that I am fairly intelligent person, and in his lifetime Ukraine a prosperous and rich, like France, do not see. But if I’m in my lifetime (and I’m still going to live a long time) will see that Ukraine has embarked on the path that I like, and this path is irreversible, I’ll be happy. Well, if I see that the changes are not irreversible and need my help, where shall I go? I go to the front.

– What you need to do the Ukrainians in order to find common values?

– We must start with education. What is today’s education in Ukraine? “You have to know that and then some, from cover to cover.” It is necessary for parents to deal with children like to free human beings, regardless of age, as equals. In our Eastern mentality is usually not allowed to object to the teacher. Now this is changing. I do not want this to continue in Ukraine. I want a society where freedom was.

What good it would do – it youth exchanges between Kharkiv, Dnipropetrovsk and Kyiv and Lviv, there to live in the family to be a dialogue and exchange of values. The big problem of the Ukrainians – the lack of mobility. The Americans, too, was a problem, everyone lived in his state. In the XIX century, the civil war was is connected precisely with this – everyone lived with their values. But today they made cheap flights between the states, and Americans go here and there. If I were in power, one of the first decisions I would reduce the cost of transport, both road and rail. And we need to educate and through television, and hold meetings – it’s what I do – I did not only meet with the students of the Sorbonne, but in Mariupol and Donetsk.

– Have you had a concert at the forefront?

– And do you imagine concerts at the forefront? Do you think this is the place where you have to give a concert? There bullets fly. For example, the Donetsk airport. Something I can not imagine that there is someone giving concerts. We help than we can, and sometimes a physical presence, but a little bit early to give concerts. We support the Ukrainian soldiers as soon as we can: both materially and morally. If you mean the concerts for Ukrainian soldiers in general, we did them, are doing and will do.

– What do you think about the status of Russian language in Ukraine?

– Ukrainians as a nation state must realize that a large part of Ukrainians, at least half of today speak in Russian or understand the language. This should not be seen as a negative factor, but as an advantage for a country in which there is a primary language. I want to remind you that many great Ukrainians made a huge contribution to the culture of Ukraine, writing works in Russian, since Gogol. And instead of having to create an altercation due to language, bilingualism must be used as a factor that gives additional opportunities Ukraine. If there are Ukrainians, who work to ensure that the Ukrainian nation became stronger, prosperous, competitive, using the Russian language, they are still the Ukrainians. So, this Russian Ukrainian language. Do not see the language as a stranger, and take it, too, as his own. And this will be our additional argument in the world. Distinguished physician Nikolai Amosov, who considered himself a Ukrainian, and talking all my life in Russian, that is a prime example.

But, of course, we must remember that in Russian they say and other people, and the Ukrainian language is unique and there is only us. Many nations are less fortunate than us: they have their own language. For example, the Americans. And we have our own language, and we should protect it.

– What do you think the Russians today?

– I never divide people on passports. I think it is humiliating and it is not the European way of thinking. And I’m trying to be a European. I have friends with Russian passports, who were born in Russia. You need to judge people by their words and deeds.

– What to do with Ukrainian oligarchs? How to instill in them the European values?

– You know, they have these values. There are a lot of cynical business in France, the United States and other countries. Sometimes they use their position too. All of them are choosing the freedom of choice, because they do what they want, so they share this value. They’re just, well, polite enough to respect the same values ​​of other people. That is, in this case does not work responsibility, not freedom. You can act in different ways. I do not believe that the work compelling. Forcing you to plunge into communism. Because, if you say “all the oligarchs have to select and give the state”, the next day, the property will be in the possession of others. Let it be as it is? Let them infinitely enriched (that corresponds to human nature, man is weak)? Also no.

What we need – it is civilian control in support of the reforms. Recall the end of the XIX century in America. Who possessed the oil industry? Dzhon Rokfeller. He owned 80% of the total. Standard Oil was a monopoly. But then what happened? In the United States have adopted antitrust laws, and Rockefeller was forced to split his empire into several parts. And the rules have changed. Society and the elite were willing to work together to monitor the observance of the rules.

If I was in charge of a politician, I would say: “Guys, we do not touch anything that was earned up to that point (even if it was earned by unfair and unjust by) Nobody asks how you earned the first million, but, since.. from now on, we are introducing new rules rules are the same for all:.. superiors, employees, guards, professors, housewives If somebody, me or you break the law, then it would mean prison. “

How to achieve this? We need a minimum of political will to start. Al Capone was caught in a single day. But the will to seize him, and in the end it turned out.

Just, please, do not proposals “take everything.” In 1917 there were people who did it, and the end was very sad.

I know personally some of the oligarchs. Many of them are reasonable people. Most smart. Some of them are also very open, and very much like to live by the rules. They say: “We want to have rules of the game are the same for all – for me, my rival and competitor.” I think 30-40% of those who say such things do not deceive, and they are really willing to live by the rules, but there is no law, the same for all.

In Ukraine it is necessary to work on the quality of laws. In my opinion, it is much more important to have the equality of all before the law. Let the law is bad, but let him work. It does not need very advanced legislation that does not work. Ukraine today – is the irony. Ukrainian Constitution is not bad, but no it does not comply.

– After the “Orange Revolution” society was disappointed. Why?

– In 2004 it was the first time when Ukrainians experienced an absolute injustice. The election results have been stolen. People were angry, came out to protest, and they were so happy when it was crowned with success. It was the first lesson a first grader who goes home and shouts: “Mom, I know how to write!” That’s what happened. Ukrainians have returned to their homes soup with potatoes. It was the first baby bug, while Ukraine is in fact the child or, in any case, it was then.

– You and the Russian star. Your concerts have recently been abolished in Russia. Whether it was your initiative (as transmitted by the Russian TV)?

– No. At my initiative was not canceled a single concert.

– What message would you like to transfer your Russian audience?

– I am Ukrainian, and when I talk about events in Ukraine, primarily referring to the Ukrainians. I would not really want to come to another house, even my neighbors, and to teach them there is life. I do not like to do and do not like when someone goes well with my own house. Do not expect me messages of how best to do or not do. This, with all due respect, your business. But I am very glad that in Russia such a huge number of people who love and understand our music. Because if they understand and love our music, so they understand what I feel and think. And if this is so, it means that they share many things that I have said today. And if so, then I’m glad.

– Do you anticipate what will happen in Ukraine?

– I have a song “do not want to go without the sea.” Do you think I know? No, I am not an oracle. But the actors, of course, feel a little bit more than others. Someone uses it in his work, some do not. I do not use it on purpose, but share with the public what is given to me.

He has recorded Anastasia Kirilenko

Sourse, 06/12/2014