Putin, like Hitler, the West is trying “to rot”

Alexander Podrabinek – a man of incredible inner freedom. Russian human rights activist, journalist and dissident – in 1978 was exiled to 5 years in Siberia, in 1980, arrested again and sentenced to 3 years in the camps. Author of “Punitive Medicine” and “dissidents. Between prison and freedom. “

While serving time in a camp made friends with Vyacheslav Chornovil. Hiding behind the bath, they spend hours talking about the struggle of the Russian and Ukrainian peoples against the Soviet regime, democracy and nationalism. As then, is not particularly Podrabinek chooses his words, they fly from his tongue like flames – Alexander inclined to criticize even friends. But it does so with great love for humanity. LB.ua spoke with human rights activists on the current situation in Russia and Ukraine.

– Once in the interview you said: “The human rights activist in Russia – is no longer what it was before. It is worn out the word, and so I prefer not to call themselves. ” That’s what you’re talking about Lyudmila Alekseeva (chairwoman of the Moscow Helsinki Group) and Valeria Barshchou (human rights activist, member of the Moscow Helsinki Group, a member of the Public Oversight Commission of the Moscow region, the leader of the human rights “Yabloko” party)?

– Alekseeva is the epitome of what I said. On the same way are many human rights organizations – “Memorial” movement “For Human Rights” – receive funding from the government. You can not receive funding from its power, because it is – a source of human rights violations, it is a conflict of interest. You can borrow money from another country.

In general, the agreement with the authorities need to maintain a position of strength, not weakness. In any case, they should be clear to society. That makes Borschev, there is nothing terrible, but they are going to give up. They can not do anything to dictate.

– But when you had a conflict with the movement “Nashi”, soup and Alekseeva of you stood up. If the Council under the President (of the Presidential Council on Civil Society and Human Rights, which includes Alekseeva) officially says that protects you, it’s the same means?

– It means nothing, personal protection of one person is insignificant. It’s – well, but they do not oppose the system. They do what they have to do a good lawyer. Violation of human rights in Russia – systemic phenomenon, and our power without it can not. By its very presence, they support the system. “Our” – the president of the project, I know who it was engaged in AP. Some organize, protect others – a good system, like Charlie Chaplin: boy hitting the glass, and was the man behind them and paste them.

– And why? The foreign system of grants is not popular in Russia?

– Used, but in 2012 the authorities adopted a law on foreign agents . Now organizations that receive funding from abroad, recognized as foreign agents and entered in the register. In all their material (photos, videos, all published) should be written that they are foreign agents. For Russia, this concept is very negative – almost a spy. Therefore, many organizations prefer to give up foreign funding. But I want to be – began to take money from the president.

– That is, in the majority they do already for the “existence” rather than the protection of human rights?

– No, it is not so clear. Some try to protect the rights, but are on the hook financially in power. Up to a certain point, it can not be shown, but it is inevitable, this fall. Just Alekseeva. sometimes the Moscow Helsinki Group makes statements. But then must repay debts – praises Deputy AP Volodin.

– Another one of your quotation, already from the book: “The Russian civil society is almost never affects the political situation in the country, affecting the West.” West really affect?

– In Soviet times, the only way it was, there were no public opinion in the country. It even could be formed. For example, the demonstration of the Soviet embassies abroad had a big impact. The fact that the Soviet Union fell, was the merit of dissidents, but the key role played by pressure from the West.

– And now the West has the same effect?

– Less than before. In Soviet times, the government reacted nervously to statements by the West. This is not so, they are very cynical, arrogant.

– Yes. I remember how, Medvedev said, “There’s no money, but you will stay.” It’s such insolence – I can say whatever I want, I do not care.

– Yes, they do not have the feeling that somewhere to stop.

– And why Russian society allows so with a contact?

– Good question. Some resent. You know, but that Ukrainian society itself is the same for a long time allowed. Until recently, the Maidan.

– When Yanukovych? But politicians still did not allow himself to say so openly, “I do not care.” Since Putin roads: “Why do you need a car, if there is no road?”.

– Yes, of arrogance they surpass many others. But society is not tolerated in 2011, when they brazenly and cynically announced castling with Medvedev, they say we change places, and we have already agreed. It was a shock, people rebelled, and there were protests by more than a hundred thousand people. I understand, for Kiev is not numbers, but for Moscow – yes. Only a long time people did not have enough. I think that the reasons must be sought in historical roots.

– Remember how in 1991 brought down the monument to Dzerzhinsky in Moscow. The same thing happened during the Maidan with Lenin. It is strange that now the Russians are outraged that Ukrainians take away “the Soviet past.” I’m talking about the global sentiment.

– Before you reach the moods that are broadcast media. And most of them are controlled by the authorities. Therefore, people have created a distorted picture of what is happening in Russia.

– And what about the reality?

– In fact, such support, which blows authority, no. 86% – where they do have those numbers?

– I watched the transfer of “Moscow speaking” with historian Yuriem Zhukovym and Valeriem Borschevym, they talked about Stalin. The fact that the Russian company said the number of victims of Stalin’s regime exaggerated, and Stalin – a great politician. At the end was a survey – 76% of people voted in fact for the fact that Stalin “did everything right”.

– “Levada-center” conducted a survey in which more than 40% of respondents said that they are afraid to answer honestly.

And the poll, which you say is not representative. After all, there are trolls factory. For example, Olgino – a company which is engaged in trolling – for money place the necessary comments and posts. And do the same at the polls. Therefore, on 1 real person accounts for 20 boats.

I do not believe that 70% of people on the streets of Moscow will vote in favor of Stalin. Just as there is 86% who support Putin’s policies. The only way to check – to arrange elections. But the elections are rigged. It is a proven fact. Even observers OSBE talk about it. And if 86% supported Putin, they would have no need to fake.

– If there is a falsification of the facts, why, again, people do not react?

– They react, served in the courts. Those denied. The courts are subject to the authorities.

– What is the history of Ukrainian Maidan in Russia is not the way out?

– Exit, only you can not collect it. In Russia in 2011 there was a similar situation – belolentochnye protests. But people began to protest in the head, that it “merged”. Opposition activists protest brought to a screeching halt, he did not develop. You can not just stand there, it’s not effective. This is a separate issue on which I am now doing the program.

– But it was the Maidan, they have not yet beaten the students – they just stood there. But we beat them because they interfere?

– Now, if not beat, nothing would have been there. No, they did it because of the fact that that power was neither mad nor excerpts.

– You are very supportive Dadin. What do you think, why he was arrested? He’s the first one under “Repeated violation of the rules of the public event” received a prison sentence. This is due to the fact that the rally was in support of Ukraine?

– He participated in several pickets. I do not remember which was the last. He’s just very stubborn. The authorities decided to show someone how the law works, scare everyone. It is not because a picket in support of Ukraine. Just now there is a tightening on all fronts, including the street activity. By the way, God knows, maybe they really achieve something.

– People are scared it?

– I think not. Because the pickets there.

– That’s strange is: Nemtsov killed – others do not kill. Dadin planted, but others do not.

– The actions of the Russian authorities is difficult to assess, because we have different coordinate systems. It is a mistake to try to stand in their place – they are spontaneous in many ways. Of course, they have a common line on tougher – for example, limiting laws. But in individual cases they often act situationally. Suppose Putin frowned – “too many pickets.” Someone heard and decided to put a man to reported about the fight against street activity.

– Do you think Russia’s return as methods of punitive psychiatry? Because in the Crimea have already seems to come to this.

– No, it did not happen. Here has died – yes, he was sent to a psychiatric hospital for a month for examination . But doctors did not dare to recognize him sick. They remember all too well what a shame were accused of using psychiatry for repressive purposes in the Soviet Union. They are afraid of such allegations. There are professional medical community, which depend on the power, but not enough to make a diagnosis is not a sick person. Another thing, the investigating authorities – most of them perform almost any order.

Now the authorities are also trying to introduce a uniform standard of teaching history to supply its ideologically profitable. But they are faced with the opposition of teachers. Society is not so easy to accept, as they would like. They would like to get rid of all the opposition, but they do and it does not work.

– In general, punitive psychiatry – effective method of repression?

– Oh sure. Firstly, in prison a person has a life, he knows when to come out. The term mental hospital there, he can sit there all his life. The very notion of “indefinite detention” can demoralize. Then, in the camp you can write a complaint to the prosecutor’s office and sent her, maybe even someone come talk to you. Fundamentally it does not change anything, but it is still self-protection process. In such a mental hospital there, you can not file a complaint, you – crazy. You are forced to have antipsychotics, may be tied to the bed, wet wraps to make (a person wrapped in a sheet and when it dries, compresses the body). There’s a whole system of torture. All who because of political motives was sitting in a mental hospital, they say in unison: “It is better to camp, a prison!”

This method can return, but requires effort on the part of the authorities, an even greater pressure on society. If all goes as it is now – the power will not be afraid, yes, before this can reach.

– Is there in Russia an active opposition and what her future?

– Things can change and become worse. They can stop the international community. But there are practically no people inside the country.

The opposition is very weak, cowardly and frightened. They are not ready to any decisive action, his every move is consistent with the government. Even protests, and not just a place (although by law it is only necessary to notify the action), and the number of people, the route, the number of frames of metal detectors. I’m in such meetings do not participate, to hold a meeting in a police pen with the permission of the authorities – is silly!

I always criticize the opposition. They to me are still good, but I peck. I explain to them that peck power – is not productive. Yes, we know what it is crappy. It is important that the opposition was good, because today may be tomorrow’s opposition government. If the opposition is bad, the power will be too bad tomorrow. Distance themselves from power, be more independent, courageous, be able to take risks, add the drive itself.

If, in connection with something, the opposition will be more serious, and wake up self-esteem people, the opposition must be prepared to support the protest. The current opposition is not ready for this.

And I see my goal was to somehow make a difference. Maybe, the international situation, to understand the West – Putin should be stopped. Because, if Putin did not stop, he is quite able to unleash a third world war. It’s you and me and the West seems to be: how is it that they are the same samounichtozhatsya? Yes, they samounichtozhatsya, but they can do it.

– For what?

– And for what Hitler did all this? I am convinced that if he would have a nuclear bomb, it would have took it – to prove his toughness. They are guided not rational feeling. This is what we think about the consequences. It is important to show themselves at least in front of him, and even better in front of everyone.

Yes, probably, Russia buys Western politicians in Crimea travel delegation from the local French and Italian parliaments. They find some Depardieu or Segal, who receive citizenship.

But, probably, not only this is dictated by the West such a weak position. In the history of many moments when the West caved under the dictators. The West wants to settle everything peacefully, but they did not understand what was going on. Because Putin any counter actions perceived as weakness and presses more. He is a vampire, lives concessions. In the West are not accustomed to this form of behavior that we have, it is well known. This camp system behavior, whatever it’s called “try to rot.”

It reminds me of the situation with Hitler – when was the Munich Agreement, Churchill said that Britain had a choice between war and dishonor, she chose dishonor, and will get war. Typologically, Putin and Hitler are very similar. In a word, it is necessary to pay attention to human rights before the situation becomes catastrophic.

Interviewed by Teresa Lashchuk

Sourse, 18/11/2016