Let my people go: about Ukrainian prisoners in Russia

Guests transmission “Your Freedom” to “Radio Liberty” Ukrainian studio Lyudmila Alexeyeva, Russian human rights activist, head of the Moscow Helsinki Group (by telephone from Moscow); Alexandra Matviychuk, lawyer, chairman of the board of the Center for Civil Liberties (Ukraine).

Alexander Lashchenko: June 1 this year in Kiev, “Kinopanorama” cinema premiere of the documentary “euromaidan SOS». As part of the premiere, in particular, the presentation of the world, we can say the campaign «Let my people go». We are talking about the liberation of Ukrainian citizens who are, in the opinion of human rights activists, for political reasons behind bars in Russia. It is not just about Hope Savchenko and Oleg Sentsov. Those citizens of Ukraine, which still holds Russia, about thirty men, for the SBU data.

What is the fate of the Ukrainian people? And can they be exempt? At least some chance there is to it?

– Mrs. Matviychuk, what kind of campaign? It lasts longer than one day, the presentation will be June 1 this year. What has already been done?

Alexandra Matviychuk: We started this campaign at the April session of the Council of Europe. We would like to draw the attention of parliamentarians that in addition to courageous Nadia Savchenko, which contains illegally fabricated criminal case in Russia, such people, at least a few dozen. And only we know about 11 people, contained behind bars. Here is the chart shows who was appointed “punitive”, who was appointed as “terrorists”, who was appointed “spies”. And these people, according to our calculations, we were able to identify 11 people here, as we have seen, different sex, age, occupation, property status, place of origin, but they all have in common is that their deeds clearly political motive.

If we talk about the results of this campaign, which we launched in Strasbourg and now continue, the first of these results – the release Yuriya Yatsenko, a student at the University of Lvov, who was appointed “right sector” is banned in Russia, a “terrorist”.

– From the point of view of Russian law enforcement agencies.

Alexandra Matviychuk: Of course. The thing is absolutely absurd. They engaged with fellow small business activities have come to Russia, and there have been illegally detained for three months. During this detention authorities did not carry out the court’s decision and did not deport them. But they are subject to brutal torture. And to imagine that the guys in the usual Lviv students had to go through, I’ll just say that in order to stop it, one of them cut his wrists, and another cut his stomach.

Well, actually, about the fate of our Ukrainian prisoners – they are not to be envied. In fact, the lawyer Nadia Savchenko Ilya Novikov says that he does not even know whether alive Nikolai Karpyuk as 14 months to it do not allow Ukrainian consul.

And here is indicative of the response of Ukraine. Everyone has heard about the famous case Grushnik detention. They allowed the Russian consul.

– Yes. This refers to the two detained Russian riot police, who are now in the Kiev hospital. Russia asserts that they are citizens of Russia, the Russians, the military, but in the past. Although the detainees in an interview with Russian “Novaya Gazeta” Paul Kanygin admitted that they were Russian servicemen.

Alexandra Matviychuk: I pay attention only to the fact that in this case Ukraine immediately admitted the Russian consul to the arrested Russian citizens. But many of the people arrested in Russia Ukrainian consul simply can not get there. Some of them refer to themselves as Ukrainian citizens, as Oleg Sentsov, and define them as Russian citizens. “Submitted to the ground during the occupation of the Crimea,” as he said at Oleg court.

Indeed, the essence of this campaign – is to draw people’s attention to the fact that there are such people, it is not one, not two, not three, they need our help, and in this authoritarian country like Russia without external strong pressure these people just no one let go.

– By the way, remind, indeed among those people who are still behind bars in Russia, there is a Ukrainian citizen 73 years of age? Mr Soloshenko.

Alexandra Matviychuk: Yes. Yuri Soloshenko 72 years. His poor health. And it’s all very concerned about the doctors, his family.

– And what he is accused? What is also forbidden “Right Sector” in Russian? What is it?

Alexandra Matviychuk: He is accused of spying, that he illegally received and disclose information constituting a secret. That is, espionage. In that way, it shines 20 years in prison. That’s him in ’72 and another 20 plus can give.

– (by phone). Ms. Alekseeva, what is your opinion about what is happening in Russia, with Ukrainian citizens, who are in prison? What it is: political persecution, says Ms. Matviychuk, or, as Russian law enforcers really a criminal investigation made by lawyers will be a trial, if the court finds them guilty, they go free?

Lyudmila Alexeyeva: All true. But, unfortunately, it is not only Ukrainian citizens, Russian citizens also suffer from it. In Russia we do not have just qualified court. And the conditions of detention in prisons and other detention centers are heavy, and very often the mode of construction in violation of Russian laws is much more humane than the actual stay in prison.

– You are engaged in human rights work for decades. It began in the USSR. By the way, it was my colleague, including “Voice of America” ​​in the “Radio Liberty”, leading the program. Now, 25 years later, a quarter century after the collapse of the USSR, does not change to protect the human rights situation in Russia?

Lyudmila Alexeyeva: Unfortunately, it is much worse than it was in the 1990s.

– Have a chance to release the citizens of Ukraine, which are contained in Russian prisons? Some observers, including Russia, the pro-Kremlin does not claim that all depends in this case and in the case of Hope Savchenko, and in the case Olega Sentsova, and other citizens of Ukraine less famous, from a single person – Putin.

Lyudmila Alexeyeva: Absolutely.

– Like, if there is more pressure on Putin, the less chance there. He does not give in to pressure. Do you agree?

Lyudmila Alexeyeva: Anyway, so declare.

– What do you do? Dead end?

Lyudmila Alexeyeva: Fight. And for Ukrainian citizens, and for our citizens. Prison conditions have to be civilized.

Well, the court? I believe that this is our main problem, despite the fact that we have a whole bunch of other problems. This lack of qualified and independent in their actions the court. Because if any problem could be resolved in a court of law, then we have a much better it would be in the country.

But the fact of the matter is that we go to court involuntarily. Where else? But we know in advance that, most likely, will not be made a fair decision, and is one that our government wants.

– Not too optimistic, as far as I understand you. Ms. Alekseeva, then what to do? Pressure from the West? What are some other levers?

Even Brezhnev managed (you remember it from my own experience) anyway. For example, emigration to Israel and other moments. Yet Brezhnev signed the Helsinki Final Act in 1975. Some success was still on the pressure. Although small. What, then, Putin may be affected now?

Lyudmila Alexeyeva: I do not know. I’m not Putin. I believe that, in general, not only in relation to Russia, but also with regard to Ukraine, of any other country, only a strong civil society in the state can influence the behavior of the authorities.

We civil society (thank God!) Is, but to call it a strong and powerful language is not rotated. I know from my practice. Of the 10 cases for which I take, and I take only when I am sure that the law is on my side and the Constitution, work out about three and seven is impossible, because the government does not listen to what the public wants.

Unfortunately, recipes, taking into account the situation in our country, there are, but it will run slowly. It is necessary to cultivate, strengthen civil society. We will have rule of law, we will have a democracy.

– Ms. Alekseeva, the Soviet Union is clear, what was the civil society prior to the restructuring, but in 1968, just a handful of people came to Red Square to protest the Soviet invasion of Czechoslovakia. There were other examples. Were dissidents. You know many of them personally.

Now the company – 86% of support for Putin. On what to expect? When will the fruits? When will “own perestroika”?

Lyudmila Alexeyeva: What it is, I know. And when – I can not say. Kills me, this statistic (86% support Putin – Ed.), Because, frankly, I thought that 25 years after the collapse of the Soviet Union, we, my fellow citizens, have already got rid of the imperial syndrome. But what happened in the Crimea, has convinced me otherwise. A lot of people happy and maintain it. So we have not ceased to be an imperial nation. It is very hard to realize. Because as long as we Empire, we can not become a democratic country. Empire democracies do not happen.

– Mrs. Matviychuk, can be any blame Putin, Russia’s law enforcement system that dozens of Ukrainian citizens for political reasons are behind bars in Russia. But they, the listed person I have a responsibility? The Ukrainian government is doing something to rescue them?

Alexandra Matviychuk: Very good question. After all, the duty of every government – to protect its citizens, no matter what difficult situations they find themselves. Actually, we decided to test how the Ukrainian government carries out at least a minimum minimorum, what can be done in this situation.

In particular, according Aleksandru Kostenko. It is a well-known environmental activist, the “case Sentsova” was also detained in the Crimea. He “sew”, that he party “sabotage” of the “Right Sector”, who allegedly tried to organize and organized several attacks. He faces 20 years in prison. And now the courts are going over it. And it is in the “Lefortovo” in custody.

We sent a request to the GPU and asked them whether open proceedings on the fact of illegal abduction Aleksandra Kolchenko from the territory occupied Ukraine, travel to the territory of Russia, which, incidentally, is prohibited by the Geneva Conventions. Just as, for example, the GPU is done in the case Olega Sentsova.

We got answers. GPU we were told that our application is considered and included information in the Unified State Register, it is forwarded to pre-trial investigation in the Pechersky District Police Department.

But the response of the Pechersk district police have shocked! I’ll just show it. It says that in the course of working out of the statement, it was found that all the problematic issues that arise in other countries (please!), Outside the competence of the bodies of internal affairs and are considered by the Ministry (and it says here) for Foreign Affairs. Probably had in mind the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of Ukraine. Actually, so they do not see grounds for the opening of criminal proceedings and to make our statements in a single register of pre-trial investigations.

It is already very sad. We see who has signed: the head of the Pechersk district department, police colonel, acting Head of Pechersk district department. If they do not know that the Crimea – it is Ukraine, albeit temporarily occupied territory, then what kind of protection of our citizens who have been alone with the occupier, can we talk ?! Of course, we will appeal.

– Appeal where?

Alexandra Matviychuk: We will write to the GPU. As they we were told that our statement made in a single register of pre-trial investigations, we say: you’ve made or not made, and to appeal to a higher court – the leaders of the Pechersk district department in the Interior Ministry.

– «Let my people go». What further specific measures will be part of this campaign for the release of Ukrainian citizens who are in prison in Russia?

Alexandra Matviychuk: The first thing we must understand that these people need our information support. When Yuri Yatsenko was released from prison, he said that investigators followed by the FSB for each publication, for each press conference, which was done “euromaidan SOS» in his defense, brought him the printout and discussed with him. For him, it was a confirmation that he had not forgotten about him that Ukraine remembers him struggling. And it actually holds.

Second. We will put pressure on the international human rights institutions, namely the UN, OSCE, Council of Europe, the EU.

– The court in Strasbourg is too early to apply, because there is no verdict of the Russian court, so it turns out?

Alexandra Matviychuk: Yes. As demonstrated by the case Nadia Savchenko, the Court – is not the best tool in this system. After all, the Court considers the violation of the rights and is always trying to avoid the politicization of the issue. And since the matter has clearly political motive, but the pressure it can be solved at the political level favorable for our citizens means.

– Perhaps, in the administration of President of Ukraine Petro Poroshenko in that it is changed or the Ministry of Foreign Affairs, to Mr Klimkin?

Alexandra Matviychuk: This is our next event. Since Poroshenko, and Klimkin talk about a narrow circle of people.

– About the most famous: Hope Savchenko Oleg Sentsova.

Alexandra Matviychuk: And even now about Aleksandre Kolchenko. A year after the work of his friends. They have the ability to speak and represent the entire list.

Plus, we are talking about the Ukrainian political prisoners in Russia, and there are still people who are detained, arrested and now sit in the occupied territories in the Crimea. And these people do not forget. This Alexander Kostenko, it Ahtem Chiygoz son Mustafy Dzhemileva.

– Ministry of Justice of Ukraine appealed to her son Cemil extradited to Ukraine. While there is no answer Russian law enforcers.

Alexandra Matviychuk: And there is another point that we do not raise in the campaign, but about which we always say. There are a large number of missing persons in the area ATO. According to the information, which comes to relatives, to the Russian human rights activists, to us, they are transported not only in the occupied territories, some of the hostages were gone.

– That is, it turns out, as Nadezhda Savchenko.

Alexandra Matviychuk: Like Nadezhda Savchenko. Their whereabouts are unknown.

We are now asked our colleagues to Russian human rights defenders to send requests to the prison to at least understand whether there are there Ukrainian citizens. And if they are military, the more clearly where they …

– We are talking about tens, hundreds? Hard to say?

Alexandra Matviychuk: If we talk about the official statistics of the missing, we have their 1500. Of course, some of them – this is, unfortunately, the people who were killed. And we are talking about 400 people, according to official statistics which are in captivity (separatists – Ed.).

Sourse, 29/05/2015