About Evgeny Sverstyuk

December 1 marked one year since the death of Evgen Alexandrovich Sverstiuk, literary critic, writer, president of the Ukrainian PEN Club, a dissident and former political prisoner of the Soviet era. Elena Sannikov interviewed the Russian human rights activist, head of the Russian “Memorial”, Moscow Helsinki Group member Sergei Adamovich Kovalyov – solagernika Sverstiuk of the Permian political zones.

Elena Sannikov: Evgen Aleksandrovich died at the age of 85, before reaching 12 days before his 86th birthday. Despite his advanced age he was until his last days, keenly interested in the turbulent events in Ukraine and as far as possible to participate in them.

Eugene Sverstyuk was highly educated man, a true intellectual, a model of exceptional integrity, honor and courage. He spent 7 years in the political camp and five years in exile in Buryatia. After his release, he highly educated translator and poet, had 5 years working as a carpenter in a factory in Kiev. Only after 1988, he had the opportunity to work on a specialty.

Eugene Svetstyuk – founder and chief editor of “Our faith,” the newspaper, author of many essays and articles on literature, psychology, religious studies, translations of poetry from German, English and Russian into Ukrainian.

Death Evgeniya Sverstyuka at the beginning of December 2014 was a sad and irreparable loss to the Ukrainians.

In the 36th Persky camp Eugene Sverstyuk friends with Sergei Adamovitch Kovalevym . Not so long ago I recorded a conversation with Sergei Kovalev on Eugenia Sverstyuk. Vasil Ovsiyenko, a friend and colleague Evgeniya Sverstyuka already translated the text in the Ukrainian language and passed to the Ukrainian media.

I hope that our readers it will be just as interesting to the Russian.

Sergei Kovalev on Evgeny Sverstyuk

Elena Sannikov. Sergei Adamovich, I well remember how 23 years ago in Magadan link you told me about Evgeny Sverstyuk as one of the best people you will meet in captivity. Now that we all suffered the irreparable loss when Evgen Aleksandrovich no longer with us, I want to talk to you again about this wonderful man. Please tell us about your meeting with him in the camp.

Sergei Kovalev. In our area there were friendly relations is not fast, it was a feature of our area. I think we had about six months to Evgeniem Aleksandrovichem “you”: “Mr. Kovalev,” and “Pan Sverstyuk” by my name … And only then switched to “you” and began to call each other by name.

ES When and how was your acquaintance?

SK We met very soon after my arrival in the area. On the stage of Vilnius, I was taken in December 1975, for a long time were taken and brought to the area and put in quarantine. I still do not understand why this quarantine is needed: sitting in the cooler, but not in the cooler mode, waiting, when released into the zone … Why?

As of my arrival area already knew, and this may have contributed to some article about me in a newspaper … When I was released from quarantine in the evening, the first person I saw was Petras Plumpa. He walked near Burano, and I think that it is not accidentally walked. But when I saw him and went to him, he gave me a sign and I realized that it is not necessary to identify our former acquaintance. And as if we met again.

And Eugene Sverstyuk at that time was on a date. I showed him a day or two and said, do not need right now it is approached, it is just from the meeting. So it was decided in our zone: give a man to be alone with him after the meeting with their relatives.

Initially, Eugene spoke to me in Russian, and then moved to the Ukrainian. I understood a little Ukrainian, but not enough to speak it, but for some reason, Eugene thought that with me have to speak Ukrainian. Perhaps it was a sign of special recognition.

But when he was summoned to the conversation … After all, in the area from time to time to come to us, “the public” – the workers, the professors, journalists. They came to the Ukrainians, the Balts for … only to Russian did not come.

And when came the Ukrainians – to tell how thriving Soviet Ukraine, and so on – all Ukrainians called. Sverstyuk was only after insistent personal invitations. By the way, they asked us – maybe someone wants to listen? But no one wanted.

So, there began a conversation, of course, “ridnoy Move”. And Eugene Sverstyuk answered them exclusively in Russian. When they expressed their bewilderment, he explained: “Here I am speaking in the language of the convoy.”

So his appeal to me in Ukrainian evidence of some respect. And, besides, in my opinion, he vigorously tried to turn me into Ukrainian. I’m actually half Ukrainian, my mother was a full-blooded Ukrainian.

ES From what places?

SK Of present Sumy region. This is – a place of Prince Igor, near Konotop, Novgorod-Seversky, Putivl … Current Gums, Northern Ukraine, the town Mid-Bud, and Zernovo station.

By the way, near the Zernovo was a huge camp, where the Germans gathered prisoners. It was a rich harvest of famous Ukrainian boilers. Many of the prisoners by the will of the Soviet Themis, later became “war criminals.” And when I say in the zone where I was born, the old men shouted: Oh, brother, I’m under cereals in the camp has been …

So, half of my blood purely Ukrainian, while the other half is divided between the Russian, Belarusian and Polish. But it’s not that.

Evgeny wanted to do all those who like him, the number of Ukrainians in. But he was talking to a clean, literary, high Ukrainian, and I am in the family heard what is called the “Balakan”.

Our family was Baba Darya, she was 16 years old when the abolition of serfdom. Still quite young, she hired a nanny in the house of his grandfather, and has gradually become a member of our family. She spoke in Ukrainian, but Ukrainian in places – not real, it is rather a southern dialect of Russian.

I well understand the language, but I did not really help to understand Evgena. Basically I knew, of course, but sometimes saying, tell me it’s in Russian. So he switched to Russian.

Despite the close friendship, we had a lot of differences in outlook on life. In different ways we perceive and literature. Eugene could not overcome his wariness to Pushkin, it focused mainly on the theme of Peter and Mazepa. To me it seemed that the views of Pushkin, who Evgen so negatively perceived, is not a major poet.

Pushkin’s attitude to Ukraine Yevhen hurt hurt, but I was pretty indifferent. Yes, Pushkin was the Great Russian people. He was friends with Gogol, who was Shiriy Ukrainian, but would in fact including Russian. Eugene did not want to see Gogol he respected and admired, but Pushkin …

Pushkin has verses that I was very annoyed by this “slanderers of Russia”, – boorish, in fact, poetry. They made, though the level seen done, but the content there is only anger, arrogance, xenophobia, and nothing else. But – just a bad episode.

And for Evgena images of Mazepa and Peter determined look of a poet, he has not seen them Pushkin.

But also myself, I can be accused of is that I did not close Shevchenko. A good poet, his fate was more direct than that of Pushkin, but as a poet – not Pushkin …

ES You Pushkin dispute or simply share ideas?

SK At some point I realized that I need not argue. I expressed my, he – his … Eugene recognized poetic gift of Pushkin, but Pushkin was his expression of the idea of the “big brother” of great pride. The fact that he put Shevchenko above, I understand, so that kinship in blood strongly it affects the assessment of the level of the poet. To me it was hard to take.

We talked about Gogol and Dostoevsky. Eugene showed me that Dostoevsky felt a sense of jealousy to Gogol: the idea of ​​what he might undertake – Gogol already talked about this … He gave examples where this jealousy is obvious.

ES How would you describe Evgen Alexandrovich?

SK Eugene was very emotional and deeply religious man. This is – the classic “I Believe”, which rarely see. There does not need any arguments. Eugene was an intelligent, highly educated people, but their intellectual qualities, he did not use to believe it was he just did not need.

Once we thought of something to write. It was the correspondence of the two angles. Exchange of views on a variety of topics and exchange of information. It were considerations about Ukraine and Russia, and the memories of each of us on the court case, the position of the friends in the investigation.

The result was a long and large work. We finished it by the time Simon had free Kifyak. This man was in a strange way political zones: it is produced fake documents, inquiries, was a master of it, and, apparently, at some point, he came under suspicion. Perhaps he had a feeling that has nothing to lose.

One day he went to the football and in a strong drunk stood up on the bench and began shouting anti-Soviet slogans. It tried to calm down, but only provoke and he uttered so many that were arrested. So he got into our zone. I do not understand why he was in the area of ​​criminal 190-1 did not get, but I guess a lot of rattled …

He was away from the living area, but expressed sympathy for our position in life. And we trusted him to make the zone of our dialogues. He had prepared beforehand book of poems with large gaps between the lines.

We naively used the method of “water letters”: on the wet paper write with light pressure sharpened cane, paper dry – there is no trace, and to wet – again easy to read. Semen faithfully copied our text between the lines. But the censors, of course, knew these primitive tricks – notebook away.

ES And the dialogues were not kept?

SK No. It was then the idea to resume our work, when we were both of exile. We agreed that will meet, resume our dialogue, but it is well-intentioned and left. He was very busy, and I was busy, so when this started, the Supreme Council of …

Last time we talked about it on the phone shortly before his death. So our joint work and has not been preserved. Though it was interesting. For his part, in any case, it was a meaningful text.

ES And how did you meet again at will?

SK When I came back from exile, I was expelled from Moscow. I lived in Kalinin, and when secretly arrived in Moscow, had to stay with friends. They we met Joe and when he came, so he met with my Moscow friends. Then we do not often call up, but periodically met – in Kiev, in Moscow.

ES Tell us what you agreed and what disagree?

SK About our differences, so to speak, on a national basis … I – cosmopolitan, for me there is no nationality. And for him … If we talk about the Ukrainians, that is they have such a feature, which in extreme cases becoming anecdotal. Once Slavko Chornovil arrived in Moscow and invited the Russian political prisoners in the Ukrainian embassy.

We came from the Ukrainian side was Slavko and others, and all spoke in Ukrainian. In the area I talked a lot with Ukrainians, better than anyone else understood the Ukrainian question, read in Ukrainian rather freely, but then other people came to me. And those are the Ukrainian.

I ask this – Ukrainian lesson? But because they do not teach. Are not you curious to know what you mean? Well, I understand, and others? You are invited to demonstrate in front of us patriotism? So we know so … and rough, Behold, even pan Kovalev shows great power manners …

I realize this is historically justified, the people who are appointed “younger brother” – understood as the sum of its psychology. But sometimes it pays provincialism. Some such raid was on many Ukrainians. A notable exception was Ivan Alekseevich Svetlichny and bright representative – Igor Kalynets, I got on with him difficult. And Eugene – quickly and easily.

And that’s what we were close with Eugene. With such a pronounced concern of national oppression, he realized a very important thing. When he was still the Soviet Union, the parliaments of the Union Republics existed Human Rights Committee. And on the initiative of Russia held a meeting of the parliamentary committees.

The first time – in Moscow, there are Russian, Ukrainians, Balts, Armenians, Georgians … Political prisoners were resistant Ukrainian. We were friendly discussion, sometimes developed into a debate. And there was a question on which the Russian part of the parliamentary conference was in solitude.

The argument was that the priority of the right: the right of the individual or collective rights? It is easy to see which view is held by Russian delegation. All the others were in favor of the priority of collective rights. They eagerly justify it: after all, a lot of people – this is not one. Not one some kind of … Well, right by Mayakovsky: “one voice thinner than a squeak.” And no arguments did not touch them.

So, I must say that in our conversations with Eugene for all his Ukrainianism he was held in this regard the same view as me. It is well understood that a reference to the interests and rights of the majority – a favorite weapon of tyrants.

But Eugene did not consider himself briskly educated in law, it is not needed. He knew poetry, beautifully translated poems. I remember that his transfer Kipling was very impressed with the Ukrainian me, though Ukrainian poetry in Ukrainian, I do not really understand. Eugene was a man of high culture.

And all of this jurisprudence was he did not need. He reasoned on this matter is very simple: why do I need it? I understand that, I feel it, I can see … What is the difference to me, as it is scientifically formulated? Whom should I prove? Captain Cancer? Who? And in court – someone something to prove?

He treated it quite lightly. Although with interest I listened to the different arguments and my podkovannost in these matters appreciated, as I understand it. Anyway, when he had something you need to understand, he turned to me for advice.

Well, well versed in poetry, he brilliantly. He himself wrote poetry, and good poetry! His translation of Kipling, who made such an impression on me – a poem “If”. I think he was guided not only on the text of Kipling, but also for translations of Pasternak, Marshak …

ES What can you remember of your conversations?

SK Partly it was the memories of the investigation file. Partially – the thought of Ukraine and Russia. I wrote in detail about the case of Yakir and Krasin.

I think my approach to this case was about the same as showed in my recent conflict with Krasin. My article “New” published, but too much cutting. Then my attitude to this case has not been quite the same as it is now. Then, because as it was …

When was this whole process and their so-called press conference, the Action Team at first reacted to this very tough. Grisha Pod’yapol’skii, Krasnov-Levitin and prepared a draft text – say, traitors, all laid, myself and others have brought.

I broke this trend by moving all of the claims in the investigative and judicial authorities, on how they are able to break the people. I must say that I was the instigator of this other position, and one of the arguments was: they sit, and we are not sitting.

And who among us would say how he will behave during the investigation? How many of you in advance and precisely predict it? We can not be judges them … That is such a spirit. In this way and it was the band, and I remember that Yulik Daniel, when we met with him, I was very much for it scolded.

And when Viktor Krasin first came to Moscow, we had met quite friendly. Well, well, weak person … And then came the text, where it is almost medal wants, they say, he is the chief, and let everyone knows, and, moreover, lies there was a lot … Then I spoke to Krasin address.

I’m talking about this because shared his impressions on this subject in our dialogue with Eugene. In my case it was the four volumes of extracts from the case Yakir and Krasin, I knew their business. Eugene asked me about it.

And in turn, he talked a lot about the business and about similar Ukrainian affairs. In a dialogue with Evgeny I represented the matter so that man is weak, what can you do … Of course, not without reproach – Krasin and earlier led the game with the KGB, it was somehow clear then, but I focus on this is not done.

They, too, there was someone in a similar position, and Eugene shared his impressions about his case. Among the Ukrainians were much less similar cases, but the writer Drach Drach … Oh really, he told me, and wrote what I knew.

A major part of the dialogues held exchange of general considerations – on the right of the authorities, that someone suggested by the KGB to soften fate. I was offered to repent in exchange for deportation abroad, Evgeny something of the same sort …

There was one difference in my and his behavior during the investigation. Under investigation, I questions the protocol did not answer, but conversations with the investigator admitted on a variety of topics, it came about literature, about poetry … And the investigator said, well, here you are on the righteous – but do you have always done correctly ? ..

– No, but it’s not the mistakes …

I must say that in my relationship with my investigator was a marked difference – in tone. I try to keep not just polite, but in some way courtesy … I know that sometimes prisoners there is the proximity to the investigator. And my investigator Istomin sought to do so. Sometimes it seemed to him that I was close to it, though it was not so.

But I still tried to talk to him as a person who deserves some respect, he has his own task, and I suspect that he is not sincere in his love for the Soviet regime. Istomin tried to tie me trust. I clearly control myself and my courtesy of not crossing the border, but we talked in general about the Soviet power, and of someone about something – it does not. Sometimes he tried to express some kind of gossip, I abruptly interrupted his …

But Eugene talked differently from them. He was with them arrogant, disdainful, though perfectly polite. He built the conversation down. And I did not know how.

ES How was your communication in the area?

SK We lived in the same barracks, but in different orders. And quite often we punished for what we drank tea together – something in my compartment, he has. As a rule I had caught. We drank tea together, not only was the company, young boys: Roman Chuprov Dmitry Grinko Dmitri Demidov …

Some thought that I pray before eating. With all my agnosticism then I was closer to it than they are now, in the camp is very natural. And Eugene was really a believer. He began to edit a religious magazine that was released, and I think it is perfectly turned out …

In our barracks were two porches, it is now (in the museum), there was a porch. When we wrote the dialogues – were mainly in the so-called “kultkomnate,” he wrote to her, I am your … “Kultkomnata” this was our nook, a map hanging on the wall, stood a few books … People came to write letters. Notebooks we hid, exchanged them, well, and discussed this something verbally …

ES And how often do Evgen Aleksandrovich got in the cooler?

SK Well, often, of course.

ES He has participated in protests in the area?

SK Oh sure. In these actions, we have participated together. Only occasionally we found ourselves in different areas. I was in the 36th, he was brought from the 35th ….

Gradation of these zones was such. 36 I think, “locomotive”, 35th – normal zone, and the 37th – not good to speak these words, but it was called Bitch area. Unfair name because it was such a detention center for one or two or three people who have the KGB on a particularly high degree of suspicion. They were surrounded by a broken, frightened old men forever, or informers. There were at different times Sharansky, Tolya Marchenko Yuri Orlov called the Bitch … And this area is not good.

In my opinion, Yevhen transferred from the 35th to the 36th just to visit and left here. Then he was taken back to the 35th, and six months later returned to the 36th.

When I was taken away in Chistopol, Yevhen been taken into exile. And exactly one year before the end of my life I was taken to Chistopol. All th 1981 I was in Chistopol. And Eugene already exiled.

Eugene was impeccably honest and brave. He was both strict and benevolent. He was fond of chivalry, in his verse translation of part of the word sounds. But he, in fact, was a knight.

It is difficult to speak and write about the closest people. How to pass a memorable gesture, a smile, typical intonation? ..

It was a very close, warm person close to me. There must be some special words, but to pick them up, without falling into sentimentality, very much is not easy …

Conversation conducted Elena Sannikova (July 2015)

Sourse, 02/12/2015