If the new government will take bribes and plunder the budget, it’d unseverate

Levko Lukyanenko – one of those whose name is imprinted in Ukrainian history: the political prisoner of the Soviet regime, dissident, member of the Ukrainian Helsinki Group, a politician of independent Ukraine. He was a member of I, II, IV and V convocations, but in 2007 decided to permanently retire from politics. However, this did not prevent him from being an active commentator on events in Ukraine and the Revolution Benefits. The other day, Levko Lukyanenko published the appeal to the President Petro Poroshenko, in which he called his actions “cowardly policy” and urged to drop the term “anti-terrorist operation” and to recognize the war against war. However, in May, he spoke to voters to support to the candidacy of the incumbent. About his own vision of the situation in the state,Commander in Chief . “

How would you assess the current situation in Ukraine?

I would say that Ukraine is in a state that’s going great historic landmark that divides the history of Ukraine for seven centuries of statelessness and the next millennium a great Ukrainian statehood. However, creating milestones difficult. Naturally, that the Ukrainian people made the revolution and eliminate Yanukovych and the Party of Regions gangster organization that robbed Ukraine shamelessly and unscrupulously. People had to rise up and win. If when BP changed the balance of forces and formed our majority, Moscow is not the beginning of the aggression, we would set up his government and began farming. Russia took advantage of the moment and the beginning of the war against Ukraine.

Russia ready to return to Ukraine under Moscow all the time, since 1991, developed different plans. Firstly, we started a very serious information war, and secondly, Ukraine maintained the fifth column of Moscow – officially represented by the Communist Party. From the beginning, they were opposed to the independence of Ukraine. Third – the expansion of the system of agents across the country. During this period, Moscow has made a lot of crazy, not to allow to raise the national consciousness and consolidate the Ukrainian nation. We had ideologically disoriented and disorganized society. We showed Russian TV series, films about Russian victory, but there was no word about Ukrainian history or the events of the princely era, nor the Cossack, Petliura and Bandera. We tried to educate not patriots, and lackeys. One of these plans was also armed.

Of course, Putin’s calculations, as always, was wrong. When the Ukrainian party tried to use the advice of Russian spin doctors, they always lost. The point is the difference in the psychology of the Russian and Ukrainian people. Earlier, Yanukovych, his defense minister and chairman of the SBU were Putin and he believed that Ukraine does not have any secrets, state machine and unscrew it completely incapable of organized resistance. This is the right conclusion. The problem is one. For Putin, as a representative of the Asian political civilization characterized by an authoritarian method of management, which provides as follows: that the president or the king said, the people does. When their great historian Solovyov said that in the minds of Russians is unacceptable to question the right of the state to do with the people that he likes. People have an object. They did not understand that the Ukrainians – a subject. It was force, the existence of which they were unaware.

During the conflict in Tuzla, were you a member of the Verkhovna Rada Committee on National Security and Defense. How, then, could resolve this conflict?

Kuchma was the pro-Moscow president, but soon arrived on the scene of the conflict and mobilize others. We went there many MPs and politicians, who were ready to defend their land. But that was then. For many years Moscow has extended its agents, shattered state machinery, the army destroyed, so now could not be so quick to sort it out. In addition, in the state leadership was not ready to defend themselves with arms.

How to further build relations with Russia?

Russia is an empire, and Ukraine is destined to break up the empire. During the creation of the new milestones of history of Ukraine, this is, at the same time, promote the collapse of the Russian Empire. There’s a lot of autonomous republics, territories inhabited by other national groups that also want to be independent. This is already partially manifested, for example, in the Caucasus. In 1991 he was the first stage of the collapse of the Russian Empire, it is now preparing a second. That will not happen very quickly, but Ukraine helps here. The war will lead to the fact that Russia will disintegrate. Since the United Kingdom, France, Portugal, Belgium, etc. They turned from empires to nation states. Russia has always lags behind what is happening in Europe, but it is the inevitable future of Russia. Then we will come good relationship, because they will not threaten us,

What prompted your criticism of the activities of the President of Petro Poroshenko?

I can see that much of what the president promised, he is not satisfied. I’m not happy with this. So I wrote an appealto him. Firstly, with respect to a play on words. Terrorists – is 5-10 people. If it’s a thousand, this is not the terrorists. We have another phenomenon – the war on Putin and Russia, because Russia is imposing such an image. This method is tested in Chechnya, Moldova, Georgia. Therefore, to pretend that it is fighting terrorists – is a humiliation of Ukraine. In addition, it is not true. I understand that the president is a very important area of ​​diplomatic protection in Ukraine and he draws attention to the diplomatic ethics. But I do not think that such a qualification of the war helped him to diplomatic protection. In addition, you can not declare war against Russia, you can declare a state of war with Russia. It would be correct to call a spade a spade, and in terms of international diplomacy, which he successfully leads, it would be a relief for his negotiations with foreign countries. And most importantly, by the leaders of Europe it would be easier to help Ukraine arms. A state of war has presented it to the next level.

Do you think that international actors are not familiar enough with the situation in Ukraine?

Each country has its own intelligence, of course. West knows about the situation. But one thing – intelligence data, and the second – external relations. Each country is selfish, and she does not want to climb into the war, worsen the living standards of its citizens, to take some of the victim, and so they are content with the outside game. This is normal and justified selfishness. It would be possible to somehow squeeze the facts, if we declared a state of war.

Back in May, you have publicly supported Poroshenko for president, why changed its position now?

I kept it on two conditions. First – it is said that when it becomes president, he will sell his business. At what will sell – do not give to his brother, godfather, friend or wife, and sells open way, showing people the contract of sale. Let be the money lying in the bank and then again they could start the business. In any case, there would be a lever which it is affected. For me, this is an extremely important thing. Besides, I appealed to the voters, so they supported him to be able to elect a president in one round. Election in one round was critical. If this does not happen, then the elections were delayed – a mass of funds and the state would have to think about the elections, and not about the war with Russia. I myself have long maintained Anatoly Gritsenko. When he realized that he had no chance of winning, although I sympathize with him,

I know that there is a problem of justice in society, but it is possible only in conditions of legality. And the law is possible in the case where the division of power and business. When combined business and government – is the greatest disaster that can be in the country. We had this and Yanukovych and Kuchma. 23 years Ukraine did not build, but to destroy. Therefore the problem of separation of power from business – this is the first and most important requirement and challenge after the victory of the revolution. Splicing of business and government leads to the fact that a business buys judges and they make a decision based on who the highest bidder. This elimination of the third power. Yanukovych has put itself at the service of the judiciary, including the Constitutional Court.

Now I am outraged by the fact that the president promised, but did not. If it has a plant in Lipetsk, Russia, the question arises. With that should he allowed to lead a normal economic activities and what is behind it? After initially factory operations were suspended and then resumed. How does this affect the policy? If the president does not want to fulfill this promise, that he is preparing for a new revolution. He encourages her.

Who do you support in these elections?

I supported the democratic forces. I had a certain logic. I knew that Block Poroshenko and the “People’s Front” will win and my voice will not weigh so much, so I voted for the “right sector”. I would not want that people thought it was a small group of eccentrics, unreasonable radicals or unbalanced people. On the contrary, it is a segment of the political forces in Ukraine, and it must be treated seriously. “Right sector” Ukrainians deserve thanks at least for the fact that for two months the chatter from the podium three or four good speakers ended one: “Gang Get out.” A gang will not run away. Constructive proposals were not.

Then I spoke from the podium, even though I did not give – Turchinov constantly hindered me, and offered to repeat our experience in 1990. Then we created in the Verkhovna Rada People’s Rada – we had 124 – which was the opposition. During the revolution, the representatives of the democratic forces in the Rada was 186, that is, even more. I offered to create a similar council and its government, which can include not only deputies, but also people from the public sector. It would be illegal action, but it would serve as a transition to the critical moment, and would help to position itself as a major force. That is, it would make it possible to move from talk to action. Turchinov pretended not to hear, no one is not supported, they formed a committee and wanted to collect 10 million signatures – it was already in our history, but we know,

I was just on the Independence, when the guys from the “Right Sector” took place with the institute through the European area on Grushevskogo. Tactically, it may have been unsuccessful. Then there was a day off and the Verkhovna Rada was on vacation, the Cabinet did not work. Claim anything against the police, the then regime of Cerberus, did not make sense. It would be better to wait a few days.

At the same time, I came up with this analogy: what’s the difference between Bandera and Melnik? Melnyk smart and not very Bandera, Melnyk educated and less educated Bandera – but who made history? Melnyk were participants in the First World War, then fought for the freedom of Ukraine, on their side of the practice, knowledge and experience. They have already fought and knew that to achieve independence during the struggle between the two empires is impossible. Bandera did not know that you can not win, and went into battle. The blood of those young guys, Bandera has created a milestone in our history, which is now proud. This marked the beginning of another powerful movement after World War II. On Evromaydane were wise men, but they did not have the energy. These same guys from the “Right Sector”, less experienced and clever, but they are making history right now. Therefore I praised them.

But at the time you criticized the “freedom” of similar actions – breaking out of doors, fights.

I criticized not the radicalism of “Freedom” and what happens in this game. By itself, the “Freedom” I like and enjoy. But what makes the leadership of the party, I do not like. People felt it, too, so this party is not passed in the Parliament, although I feel sorry.

Do you mean the question of funding?

Yes, it did not fall from the sky, it is connected with the people. For a long time, I was chairman of the Republican Party, and then resigned. In 2010, I was again invited to the party, I was the honorary chairman, and I returned to the condition that the party passes to self-financing. But funding hard enough in an environment where small and medium enterprises of all was afraid, because Yanukovych choked him. But go and take the money from the oligarchs international character it was impossible. We have not stepped over it, and “Freedom” – crossed. I do not want to make immorality in politics.

How would you comment on the phenomenon of the fall Tymoshenko: All the reign of Yanukovych’s regime it had been agreed, and once free, he lost rating.

I think she made a big mistake when it came to euromaidan and said it was not such as was necessary. It’s her trouble. She had no human contact, to communicate only with those who went to her, and that a limited number of people, limited information, limited emotional perception of the events that unfolded in Ukraine. It affected her and somewhere lost sense of the situation, so she made a mistake. Life does not stand still. We have a new generation that has grown up in the conditions of independence and freedom, it is a bold and politically conscious people, who gave the signal for the beginning of the revolution.

She’s a smart woman, and has extensive political experience. I think it will still be in politics.

Do you offer cooperation in this election politics or party?

Back in 2007, I decided to leave the state activity. I have decided that it is necessary to make way for someone younger. Later he resigned as chairman of the Association of Holodomor Researchers in Ukraine, too, reducing duties. But politics is such a thing, and I still do it. Bit helps management SPU. But I already easier – MAS was currently schedule.

How do you assess the balloting Yuriy Shukhevych, who has already gone eighties?

It is his will. I would not have done in his place. He, too, is no longer young. What is it?

Now there is a debate as to who should open the first session of the new parliament. By law, it must do the oldest deputy. Today this is Efim Zviagilskiy. However, some people insist that it has to do Shukhevych. That is deliberately proposed to break the norm of the law?

There is a principle that says it is the oldest MP, and it can not be changed. If you change it every time for someone, it is not a principle, and speculation. If he Zviagilskiy departed – he could technically do it, declaring that he was ill and asked Shukhevych – then it would be good. However, under other conditions, it is his right.

There is another aspect that casts doubt on the legitimacy of an MP Zviagilskiy:. In the majority districts 160-170 thousand voters. It voted for by 1.5 thousand. Man. This is a crude mockery of the electoral process and the concept of justice, gather 1.5 thousand votes and become a deputy. I am categorically against such manipulation of the electoral law and the arithmetic and demand not to recognize the authority Zviagilskiy as a person who has received such a tiny fraction of the electorate.

Combat, which took place in parliament, say they will pursue their own lustration and not let the parliament deputies who supported the dictatorial laws Yanukovych. How do you assess it?

As evidence of their political immaturity. Not everyone is a soldier, gunner, commander policies. What they want, it can be any other way. I also for the fact that Boyko (leader of the opposition bloc) and the other, the balance of the Party of Regions, was not in parliament, but there is a normal method for this. Let the prosecutor’s office or they will pick up some stuff – do not have a lot, just a violation of the law. Find this fact, filed a petition to the Prosecutor General of Ukraine, which, in turn, will make the presentation to the Parliament, that one or another member of a specific crime committed and therefore need to grant permission to take him into custody. I am pleased to support this, because most of it – democratic. Thus all criminals can be transplanted. But do not let the door – then break the will of the voters.

How long will the convening of Parliament?

If the new government will also take bribes and plunder the budget, they nesdobrovat. If Parliament does not deal with such manifestations, it will need to be updated. If they form a government of thieves and swindlers, it will accelerate a new revolution. In addition, the need to make anti-corruption bodies. If the thieves and traitors will catch and plant, then everything will be fine. But we can not allow this as it is now, when the SBU caught from time to time, spies, saboteurs, criminals – and who is condemned? Is not this fraud? Where the results of these arrests? We should not forget that for a complete renovation of power must also hold local elections.

We are not waiting for peace, we are waiting for a sharp struggle.

Is there potential in this Parliament to real change?

Undoubtedly, the 55% – this is ours. This is – guaranteed a majority. If we talk about a constitutional majority – I think there are votes. Ukraine is a huge step forward compared to what it was in the previous 23 years old. Another thing is that in one jump will not change anything. We are still waiting for a lot of changes. Problems not only in government but also in the people themselves. The effects of the Communist regime are many – the inability and unwillingness to work, lack of responsibility, the desire to live tricks. Changes that occur, should cover both the state and society. Everyone!

Sourse, 18/11/2014