The main problem – a very weak self-organization of people in the Crimea

Just over a year ago, a well-known Russian human rights activist Andrei Yurov organized theCrimean field mission – a group of observers for human rights.

Since then, in the Crimea there was a lot of things: the illegal referendum, abductions, disappearances and arrests of pro-Ukrainian activists numerous searches and deportation of leaders of the Crimean Tatars, and most recently – the refusal of registration of virtually all independent Crimean media. “The beginning of our work in the Crimea, I remember as if it happened in a past life,” – said Yurov after speaking at the Kiev conference on the human rights situation in the Crimea. 

Human rights activist began studying the situation in Ukraine at the end of November 2013, when on the Maidan, “Berkut” beat up students – Yurov was an eyewitness to this event. After that, he became one of the active participants formed in connection with the international human rights groups on the situation in Ukraine.

Activities during the trips to the Donbas and Kharkov, where already groping pain points, led to the fact that Yurov declared persona non grata in Ukraine, and February 9, 2014 he was deported to Russia from the airport “Borispol”.

Fall Yanukovich government has led to the lifting of the ban on the entry, and already 27 February Yurov arrived in Simferopol, where, however, does not expect to see Russian flags over the main buildings of the government. On March 5, when the new Crimean authorities still spoke of “increased autonomy”, appeared Crimean field mission , which still works.

The main problem – a very weak SELF-ORGANIZATION OF THE PEOPLE IN THE CRIMEA

– In the year after the referendum, what is most important to observe the Crimean field mission?

– We started to monitor the situation as a whole, have studied what happens with civil society, but first and foremost pay attention to the situation of the independent media. A year ago, we began offices grips “Chernomorka” and the Center for Investigative Journalism. And now the most worrying is that the April 1 almost all Crimean Tatar and other independent media outlets have suspended their work in the Crimea.

When I meet assessment, if 60-70% of people in the Crimea all happy, I did not mean that I do not believe – I fully admit it, because for the ordinary citizen there, maybe there are any positive things.

But as the human rights activist, I see a completely different side.

As much as it may sound sad and pathetic, human rights – is the protection of minorities , or even a single person from the power of the majority . Most usually, it does not need protection, although there are rights that are violated massively.

I can see how close almost all independent media in the Crimea. I see that the Crimea had to leave almost all human rights defenders.Fortunately, there are still some – such as environmentalists. Remained strong independent lawyers. That’s too bad, because no one with whom to build a long-term program of monitoring and protection.

I can see the pressure on the Crimean Tatar organizations, such as the Majlis. Hide this pressure can not be: are endless searches, leaders prohibit entry for people morally crushed.

It was real tragedy – the disappearance of people. Fortunately, they seem to have stopped in recent years. But some cases – blatant as to decide Ametov when the person in front of hundreds of people in the central square planted in a car and then was found dead with signs of horrific torture. No doubt in the political background of this event is not present, and the investigation is carried out effectively.

– A general investigation is conducted?

– Technically – yes.

– And someone supervises the investigation process?

– There is a problem: it can only do lawyer. Human rights activists also no formal reason to follow up the investigation, and there is such a thing as a secret of investigation. As a rule, in civilized countries, the role performed by any independent human rights organizations or independent media.

In normal countries, representatives of the investigation, the speakers, meet regularly with the public, according to high-profile cases to defuse the situation and to show that the investigation is going.

In this sense, the absence of such practices sin is not only Russia but also Ukraine, and other countries. But it is necessary to do.

– Representatives of the Crimean Tatars, who swore the new government, regularly report that the investigation is going, and that human rights are respected – but this is not true …

– Now in the Crimea, established a contact group to monitor the course of the investigation, which is composed of independent people enough, including the relatives of the disappeared. It was created with the support of the authorities, but in malice, I can not fault it – there are a lot of decent players. But, as human rights activists, they are not very well understood process.

Who went to a powerful impact on my work and the work of the Crimean field mission. They say – we vilify Russia, and indeed civil society flourishes. I can not even protest when they result in the statistics. But 86% of the Russian population also believes that they do not need the fundamental rights and freedoms. They need social rights – health, education …

– The fact that you can feel and express in monetary terms.

– Yes, retirement pay and so on. And freedom of assembly and expression they do not need. For what? Rallies only prevent pass on cars.

Does this mean that we should not fight for the basic rights? And Africa’s population, can not understand why they need the right to life, if there is no bread.

– You were talking about the Crimean Tatars and the violation of their rights. This problem is often referred to when talking about the Crimea. What other risk groups? After all there’s left and a lot of Ukrainians.

– Of course. There are people, and they are many, who had not received Russian passports. According to various estimates, up to several tens of thousands of people.

– Formally, 3.5 thousand people refused.

– Technically, yes, but far more people just did not give up because they feel that they should not give up. For what reason, then? Why they announced the citizens of another country, without asking them?

In fact, there is a legal principle: the default is stored previous status, and not automatically changed to the new one. This is a violation of the principle of continuity. If I live in the house, to stay in the house, I do not have to write a statement.

The main problem – a very weak self-organization of people in the Crimea. When we met with active Crimeans, we asked them, But with each other somehow contacted? Have you any idea how much you? Soorganizovatsya can create a self-defense committee?

Useless. Everyone survives alone.

– Why is that?

– I can not explain why people are not willing to forms of collective self-defense. This is a great mystery. And I think that this is typical rather for Russia than Ukraine. Lack of faith in themselves, hope that “someone would stand up” and who – is unclear.

IF YOU WANT TO RUSSIAN reach out to ordinary people, must be chosen in other words

– In the Crimea there are now human rights groups able to influence something?

– No. Working contact group, of which I said, but it is very small and is unlikely to affect. Committee to protect the rights of the Crimean Tatar people has been created, but its leadership immediately deported (we are talking about expulsion Sinaver Kadyrov and other committee coordinators – UP), and a few people who are working on the “hot line”.

No one has experienced human rights activist, no office. It is simply a network of people who take calls and trying to inform the public about the problems.

They used all the information sent to the ATP channel, and there it sounded. And now, where they went? The Ukrainian media? Ukrainian media in the Crimea or unavailable at all, or the power does not respond to them – it is easy to declare it enemy propaganda.

When local media write about the problems, there is a chance for something to influence. One of the troubles is that now there is not presented the Russian independent media. Everything that happens in Crimea, it is unknown even narrow the liberal part of the Russian population.

Crimea – absolutely closed area, so the authorities are trying to kill all of the independent media, to be able to do everything that you want.

Destruction of independent media – is a terrible thing.

When we started the mission in Belarus at the end of 2010, it paid attention to the protection of the three major professional social groups: human rights defenders, independent journalists and lawyers. Without these three groups can not exist no freedom and no civil society.

If there are no human rights, then there is no one to protect everyone else. And the fact that these groups are almost non-existent in the Crimea – a tragedy.

– How much is now different situation with human rights in the Crimea – on the situation in the average Russian region?

– This is a difficult question. Such a large number of independent mass media, which has been in the Crimea, not in any region of Russia, except Moscow and St. Petersburg.

Now Crimea is given to the state average in the region such as the Volgograd region. In Volgograd, there is at least one independent media?

– In general, no.

– Are there any two members of a Communist who buzyat and all. There is not one student group, social organization – and this is the city of one million, and the area of ​​the territory over the Crimea.

Such an active social life, as in the Crimea, in any Russian region was not. And yet it is quite a closed enclave, because right now there is not even the representatives of the “Novaya Gazeta”.

The immersion in the gray area is so dangerous for the Crimea? The fact that there are no ties, no representatives of independent Russian human rights, social, media structures.

There are semi-underground Ukrainian media – but for the consumer, who can influence the situation, they are irrelevant. Ukraine there is absolutely powerless as a state. But as civil society, by the way, no: civil organizations could do much to Crimea, but it is very difficult.

I will not talk in the press about the mechanisms, but I am deeply convinced that the civil activity Ukrainians could do a lot to the human rights situation in Crimea was not so monstrous.

– I could, but ..?

– Apparently, now they have no strength, because in the country occur reform, there is a war, and other processes.

– And it is technically possible?

– Maybe, but I’d prefer to explain it personally.

– International organizations, too, are not present in the Crimea. Why?

– We all know why: they do not recognize the annexation of Crimea to Russia.

By the way, there is another problem: many Russians are not configured jingoistic and krymnashistski can not accept texts written by Ukrainian journalists, because at the psychological barrier is impossible to read the text, which through word – annexation, aggression, occupation.

If you want to reach out to ordinary Russian people – not to demshizovyh liberals who do pronounce these words, but to at least 5% of Russia’s reflective of the population – then you need to choose other words.

I understand that as they say in Ukraine. Moreover, journalists have every right to write well, and in terms of your laws as well. But it destroys any possibility of dialogue with the Russian environment. Moreover, the printing of the text with these words face criminal charges.

It should be understood that the Russian reflexive population is not ready for political struggle, but it is ready to fight for human rights.

Apparently, it is necessary to create an information resource that would have written the same things that they write the Ukrainians, but without these words.

MANY of those who have been loyal in Ukraine, now do not particularly want to BACK

– In your opinion, if Ukraine enters correctly in relation to those who remained in the Crimea?

– The current situation reminds me of the story of the theft of a horse. Yes, Ukraine – it’s the owner, who was robbed and a thief to catch and punish. But no reason not to reflect on the fact that he feels the horse, which was stolen.

Now in the Crimea, there are such processes that even many of those who have been loyal to Ukraine, now do not particularly want to back. That is, they believe that Russian shit, but Ukraine – too bad. All this blockade transportation, problems with documents …

State’s conduct in relation to the inhabitants of the Crimea reminds me of the principle of collective punishment: people are punished for being in the wrong place. Probably, from the point of view of the Ukrainian authorities they had to leave immediately after the referendum, Crimea. Then they were good citizens of Ukraine. And time is not left, then automatically traitors.

So decide: they are your citizens? Then, no discrimination should not be. Or are they a fifth column and opportunists? Then stop to consider their own citizens! Choose something one!

But the Ukrainian government, unfortunately, chooses, depending on what it profitable: today one thing, tomorrow – another. They were collectively punished, but continue to claim that they are Ukrainian citizens.

Folks, it does not happen. It’s a lie.

– You’ve probably interacted with the Ukrainian Ombudsman. What conclusions do?

– I think she understands everything and gives the authorities advice. But I understand that now everything is built with respect to the Crimea, according to political positions. But policies often conflict with human rights. That is, let’s that nothing happened, arrange the blockade. It’s terrible from the standpoint of human rights.

– As for the human rights violations in the Crimea from Russia, someone is able to do to change it? At least to ensure that returned broadcasting ATP and other independent Crimean media?

– The situation is such that no one knows who can help.

– Well, Putin also can. His word is the absolute weight.

– But how to do so, he said the word is? That seems to be what could be cooler than a Norman format where agreed like that Nadia Savchenko should go free – but it is not free.

What else in this world can affect him? In my opinion, is nothing if not take into account the option of war, which I, as a human rights activist, I despise.

– But Putin, for example, stated more than once that it is necessary to respect the rights of the Crimean Tatars, to investigate cases of abductions. But his protege Sergei Aksenov thus says otherwise. How can this be?

– I have a serious feeling that the supreme power to Russia comes completely distorted information about Ukraine. No one says the Russian authorities, what is happening in the Crimea.

One may talk about it in Ukraine, but Poroshenko can not do anything in order to protect at least one of the Crimean Tatars.

If we want to influence the situation in the Crimea, there are only two keys need to influence the Russian society and the Russian authorities. Other keys do not exist.

And we must accept it, no matter how it was bitter.

IN RUSSIA I’ve never seen so many sincere and crystal clear AGGRESSION

– You are a member of the Human Rights Council under the President of the Russian Federation. How effective this body now? Is it possible to communicate through the information about what is really happening in the Crimea and Ukraine?

– We try to do it. But in the current circumstances it is very difficult to say what works and what does not. I think some of our recommendations is still getting through.

– A role of the Council in recent years has changed a lot?

– From my point of view, the role of the Council on the impact of even increased by public opinion. And to influence the government – hard to say.

It is necessary to separate the event: up to December 2013, and after. Ukrainian events have changed the format is not only power, but also of society, there have been major shifts so that it is difficult to talk about any impact.

Now all Russian society is in one of the most difficult periods in its history since the late 80s. Consolidation of the society, which everyone says is largely based on rather crude methods of psychological and reminds consolidation in a totalitarian society, which is based on the basic things are literally herd instinct.

Civilization can not develop. The modern state in this format can not live long. it will collapse politically. All end very sad and come severe depression and frustration.

– seditious question. You as the human rights activist, which model appeals to more than to live in a totalitarian state, but in the world, or to go through some kind of war and to rebuild the country after that again?

– This is a terrible question. I do not advocate revolution, the more violent.

From my point of view, the real revolution is not always on the streets and in their heads. That there was a revolution in the minds, you need a lot of factors, not only external changes. And that there were internal changes, we need positive factors.

It is not always bloody war leads to liberation and liberalization. War usually leads to what remains a heavy mass post-traumatic disorder.

People who lived through the experience of violence that they either showed or displayed to them – this is a very unhealthy experience to build healthy civil relations. Sorry for the comparison, it is like the experience of repeated gang rape does not lead to the rapid construction of a good marriage. This many revolutionaries of the past hundred years underestimated.

Any experience in supporting violence, even the most just, still traumatic in nature.

Earlier in the interview, I often quoted the philosopher Grigoriya Pomerantsa that the devil emerges from the foam on the lips of an angel coming to fight for the right cause. Without this foam, apparently, can not do, because I really have enemies, terrorists, criminals and all evil.

But our righteous pathos is also very dangerous. After much violent stories need a huge therapeutic work at the level of mass consciousness. Now, in this sense, both countries face a severe traumatic experience. He is absolutely different. But the problem is that the experience of victims of violence and the perpetrator are equally traumatic.

– For all time of your human rights work have you seen the current situation worse?

– Countries where the situation is even worse, I think I saw. It Uzbekistan radically changed after the killings in Andijan, and partly Tajikistan, where there was a very bloody civil war.

And in Russia, I have never seen so many sincere and crystal clear aggression.

And yet many do believe that right. But the question is, apparently, not only in propaganda.

A person can be deceived, unless he wants to. In any of our integrated reflex of critical thinking. When a person watches television, he does not turn off, because he likes what he sees there. The man sits down at it as a drug.

– Why during the wars with Chechnya was not such a reaction?

– The reaction was, and the frenzy of patriotism was, but he was different. Just war with Chechnya was not considered as civil.

For many Russians, Ukrainians are so close to the people that shoot in Ukrainian – how to shoot his brother. A Chechen man – this is not a brother, and a distant relative. It’s like a war between two families in the same clan – as it is perceived in Russia. stress level is much higher.In 60-70% of Russians have relatives in Ukraine.

On Chechnya, – nothing of the sort. And the scale of the other: Chechnya is much smaller, for example, the same LC, and it does not border on such large regions as Krasnodar, Voronezh region, Belgorod.

The war is in their heads. And while she is there, the world would not be in the Donbas.

The war is literally in every family. Actually, therefore, the Russian human rights activists began on 1 January perpetual anti-war campaign, about which very little is known in Ukraine – # OgniEyreny . It will go up until the war stops.

The essence of the action lies in the fact that every day at 22:00 people who are against the war, light candles and put them in the window, and a new candle is added each week.

This is important – to demilitarize consciousness in Russia.

This action was connected already tens of thousands of people, including those in Belarus. I’d like to Ukrainians simply knew that there are tens of thousands of Russians who oppose the war.

It is a prayer for peace.

– By the way, the Ukrainian would have told you that no candles in Russia it is necessary to set fire to, and tires.

– Guys, there is one problem: Unfortunately, no one in Russia will not set fire to tires . This, incidentally, says that we absolutely do not understand each other.

this is impossible in our society. Neither the bus lights.

A million candles – can.

Interviewed by Catherine Sergatskova

Sourse, 06/04/2015