Crimean Tatars: again without the Crimea?

In the world of 18 May remembers victims of deportation of the Crimean Tatars. In Ukraine, at noon local time, one minute of silence. TV channels and radio stations transmit a special signal.

In many Ukrainian cities will be mass protests. In Kiev, the students decided to support the Crimean Tatars, and to create a live installation in the form of the Crimean Tatar flag. In the evening, at the Independence Square in the heart of the Ukrainian capital held a rally of solidarity with the Crimean Tatars.

The leader of the Crimean Tatar people Mustafa Dzhemilev participates in the mourning events in Canada.

Crimean authorities for the third year in a row prohibit the Crimean Tatars to hold the traditional memorial service in the center of Simferopol. Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people recommended Tatars individually gather around established in memory of the victims of the genocide memorial stones, plaques for prayers for the dead and the dead during the deportation and exile.

On the night of May 17 in Simferopol unknown again poured paint a memorial plaque Iosifa Stalina. The last time the board poured paint in early March. Then unknown finished writing the word next to the sign “executioner”.

Controlled by Russian Crimean authorities are official ceremonies. Near the railway station Lilac in Bakhchisarai area today opened the first memorial to the victims of deportation.

In Moscow, civil society activists will hold a series of pickets at the Solovetsky Stone on Lubyanka. Xenophobia and counter party committee “Apple” will gather in the evening for a rally.

’72 ago, May 18, 1944 started the deportation of Crimean Tatars in Crimea. All peoples of the Soviet authorities accused of collaboration with Nazi Germany during the Second World War. Approximately 200,000 Crimean Tatars deported to Central Asia. On the road and in the first years of exile from hunger and disease killed more than 30 thousand people. Crimean Tatars were allowed to return to their homeland only in 1989. They have become the most recent rehabilitated peoples who were deported during the repression in the USSR.

On the situation of the Crimean Tatars in the 72-th anniversary of deportation of politician said Refat Chubarov , a journalist Eider Muzhdabaev , political scientist Victor Girzhov , Russian human rights activist Alexander Cherkasov .

Moderator – Vladimir Kara-Murza, a senior .

Vladimir Kara-Murza, a senior: remember the victims of the deportation of Crimean Tatars in the world on May 18. ’72 ago, May 18, 1944, Soviet authorities accused all the people in collaboration with the Nazis. Approximately 200,000 Crimean Tatars deported to Central Asia. On the road and in the first years of exile from hunger and disease killed more than 30 thousand people. They were allowed to return home until 1989. They have become the last of the rehabilitated people, who had been deported during the Stalinist repression.

On the situation of the Crimean Tatars in 72 years after the deportation, we will talk with our guest today – human rights activist Aleksandrom Cherkasovym, head of the “Memorial” Human Rights Center Council.

Alexander, how insulting it was for the people of the baseless accusation of collaboration with the occupiers?

Alexander Cherkasov: 43-44 years – a period of continuous punitive deportation. Not preventive deportations as was the case with the Soviet Germans and deportation of the peoples of those places where the Nazis had already driven away. It started in the fall of the 43rd, when suddenly, instead of selective deportation of the families of those who collaborated with the occupiers began to completely evict one after the other peoples of the North Caucasus, then the Kalmyks. And the last mass deportation – Crimean Tatars.

After that, this practice declined. Why it was rejected and why – is a separate issue. But the baseless charge of entire nations in total collaboration with the Nazis, and then their deportation to such victims, deprived of their motherland for a long time – it is an act falling under the definition of genocide. Given that it was at the time and in the context of the Second World War, it is really an act of genocide.

In fact, it was not invented by the Soviet authorities. This legacy still colonial practices of the Russian Empire. Science was “military demography”, which is calculated regions loyalty index and prescribed in some cases, the loyalty of “correct” way of deportation, and even destruction of the population, as it was during the conquest of Central Asia. It was revived and taken by the Bolsheviks as a completely acceptable practice in their territory. From this then refused, and subsequent deportation were partial. For example, when the Red Army entered the territory where it was really a mass anti-Soviet resistance, – the Western Ukraine, in the Baltic states – there were massive, but not solid deportation. There was a total charge of all the people in collaboration with the Nazis.

Vladimir Kara-Murza, a senior: Has anyone personally responsible for organizing the deportation? We know that in the Baltic States were Suslov Dekanozov.

Alexander Cherkasov: You can, and then find and party leaders that in the North Caucasus, for example, pointed to the indigenous peoples, as responsible for the failure of the Red Army in the 42 th year. You can find some of the figures of the number of security officers, the partisan movement in Crimea, which wrote off all the failures in the Crimean Tatar activists groups that were used by the Germans in the counterinsurgency fight. But overall it was a system that assumed a collective responsibility and collective punishment.

Let me remind you that before the war, 700,000 Koreans from the Far East were resettled in Central Asia. Because they are preparing for war with Japan. Finno-Ugric population deported from the Leningrad region. The same Soviet Germans. Just because people were thought to have all dangerous as someone to cooperate. But it is a preventive measure.

And then the area is already available, job security officers, know who actually collaborated with the Nazis. And in the North Caucasus and in the Crimea, it was not that from the point of view of the Soviet regime guilty of specific people – repressed entire peoples, and it is the policy of the Soviet state. It is these actions can be called genocide.

Vladimir Kara-Murza, a senior: Let’s look at the story of our correspondent Ivan Voronin’s pickets at the Manege Square came to Moscow from Simferopol Alisher Edilerskogo.

Alisher Edilersky, resident of Simferopol: I came from the Crimea. Today we have a horrible day. I had deported all the relatives. I was born in Uzbekistan in the 48th year. And in the Crimea, shot my grandfather – he was a partisan. Senior and junior brothers of my mother died in Hungary and outside Moscow. Even my mother had two sisters, their husbands died on the Kursk Bulge and the evacuation of children from Yalta. In general, all the men were killed. And such cynicism, such an outrage was created. And it strikes me as at this moment can people talk about Stalin. This is a terrible monster – more than 20 million people killed, deported spent. A lot of people. Koreans with starters in the 39th, Volga German continued. In general, 17 peoples deported.

Somehow, on any official channel, neither yesterday nor today does not say that there was such a terrible tragedy. Why not report the decree ?! Article 29 of the Constitution, the fourth paragraph is written, everyone has the right to obtain information and disseminate it. And I want now to disseminate information about the existence of the decree of the President of Russia on rehabilitation, which most people simply do not know.

The 94-year signed the Budapest Memorandum of immunity. The 98th was a partnership agreement between the Russian Federation and Ukraine. And April 23, 2004 was ratified by the federal law an agreement on the state border between the Russian Federation and Ukraine, signed by President Vladimir Putin. But in the end it manifested legal nihilism. And I can not understand how it is possible, while in the international community to break the signed guaranteed the president of international treaties.

Vladimir Kara-Murza, a senior: We are now in direct contact Eider Muzhdabaev, an activist of the Crimean Tatar movement.

Eider why the new Russian authorities referred to the Crimean Tatar extremists and practically paralyzed their work?

Eider Muzhdabaev: The answer is very simple. The fact that the Crimean Tatars prevent Russia to inform the world that the Crimea joined Russia voluntarily. Crimean Tatars have to destroy it for this reason. Everyone knows that the Crimean Tatars were and are against the Russian annexation of the Crimea, that they did not participate in psevdoreferendume, and they have their existence delegitimiziruyut this annexation.

Vladimir Kara-Murza, a senior: And how much do you right now, there are political prisoners among your countrymen?

Eider Muzhdabaev: In total – about 30 people. It prisoners missing.

Vladimir Kara-Murza, a senior: Stolen you belong here?

Eider Muzhdabaev: Yes. There are also killed.

Vladimir Kara-Murza, a senior: And what right now there are at your compatriots? Do they have their media, schools, cultural community?

Eider Muzhdabaev: Of course, everything is destroyed. They created a private channel, which broadcasts on behalf of the so-called representatives of the Crimean Tatar people, three of these “friends”, which Aksenov took to his government. And they create for Russian propaganda fiction that the Crimean Tatars all is well, they are in their radio and television tell us that there are no reprisals. They do not talk about the courts, on the kidnappings, bans on demonstrations on the 18th, which has always been. But they did not work.

Today was a great day in the Crimea! Today, spit on all the bans, not having received any approvals, the Crimean Tatars around Crimea took to the unauthorized action. That is, people have brought to the point of intimidation, reprisals, raids and so on, that they decided to give a damn on the day of their trouble. And today the whole Crimea was in the Crimean Tatar flags. At 12 o’clock the day was “minute memory,” when all over the Crimea sounded machines signals. That is, people gradually lose their fear of power, even though it reduces them to the status of slaves on their own land, depriving them of all, and above all – the right to speak, the right to have their opinion.

Vladimir Kara-Murza, a senior: And he expects the Russian administration, the second consecutive year, prohibiting actions on the Day of Memory and Grief?

Айдер Муждабаев: Они рассчитывают на тотальный страх, на то, что крымские татары смирятся и перестанут бороться. И что их не будет ни слышно, ни видно, как будто их там и нет. Но расчет этот неправильный, поскольку они не учитывают историю крымскотатарского народа, полувековую борьбу при СССР. Они не учитывают того, что крымскотатарский народ – это необычный народ. В силу своей судьбы это особенный народ, битый тоталитарной властью. Крымских татар никогда не удастся обмануть, чем-то приманить. Они пытались все эти два года создать фиктивные крымскотатарские органы. У них ничего не получилось. Потому что крымские татары – это самоорганизующийся народ, мирный народ, который не берет в руки оружия, но при этом имеет абсолютно железную волю к свободе. И сегодняшний день это подтвердил.

And I feel an enormous pride for the Crimean Tatars, who today took to the streets of the Crimean cities, in spite of all prohibitions, spit on all the threats! FSB reports from the Crimea: “Rewrite the numbers of cars Photographing people.”. But people have decided: “This is our holy day and you do not disable us in this day!”.

Vladimir Kara-Murza, a senior: Let us remember those representatives are not the Crimean Tatar ethnic group, who gave their lives for our freedom and yours, fighting for the violated rights of the Crimean Tatars.

Alexander Cherkasov: Protecting the rights of the Crimean Tatars became one of the most important things for the Soviet dissident movement in the second half of the 60s. And it was a process that is called, with two-way traffic. Not that someone has gone, as “going to the people”, to sow good. Representatives of the Crimean Tatars came to Moscow to seek from the Soviet regime, from the CPSU Central Committee, and so on the return of his people to their homeland. Crimean Tatars elected delegation went to Moscow, went to their petitions. And then make the information on the results of their visits to Moscow. There were unauthorized rallies. The so-called Crimean Tatars returning information as reports. And it is believed that this is a regular, in fact, the publication – volatile information sheets – one of the omens, the forerunners of the dissident “Chronicle of Current Events”.

Of course, in Moscow, the Crimean Tatars, the delegates met with the activists, dissidents, who were in favor of civil liberties. Among well-known in the late 60-ies intercession for Crimean Tatar was, for example, Alex Evgrafovich Kosterin Bolshevik red Commissioner fought with Chechens in civil. Among other things, he and his friend, Commissar Sergei Petrovich Pisarev during their return from exile was trying to protect the Chechens. And help the Crimean Tatars. In fact, the rally turned into a dirge, a farewell to Alekseem Evgrafovichem Kosterinym. He died in the 68th year. But his case took another person, another potent representative of the dissident movement – Major General Petr Grigorevich Grigorenko, a former head of the department (as one would say now – Cybernetics) Frunze Academy, truth-seeker, who for the truth after he fell into the “loony bin”. He did a lot to fight for the rights of the Crimean Tatars. And by the way, when he, along with his friend and colleague Iley Gabaem went to the 69th year in Tashkent on the process of the Crimean Tatar activists, he was arrested there, and again sent to the “loony bin”. But again, their case was left without active and thorough efforts of other representatives of the Moscow center-circle of the dissident movement.

Affairs of the Crimean Tatars engaged Aleksandr Pavlovich Lavut, who was a 74-year co-editor of “Chronicle of Current Events”. Released in 74 th year on the anniversary of the deportation of 31 release of “Chronicles” was entirely devoted to the fate of the Crimean Tatars. And when the problems have gone after the 89th year after the return of the Crimean Tatars in Crimea, where it was legalized back when everything was on the verge of conflict, in which case almost all such areas at the periphery of the Soviet Union, Alexander Pavlovich Lavut autumn 92- the year was in the Crimea “memorialskoy” mission.

We talked a lot all these years with the representatives of the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people. Relay passed. And now the “Memorial” lawyers representing the Crimean Tatar Majlis course at Simferopol, where the Majlis recognized extremist organization. This decision of the Supreme Court of the Crimea, not yet approved by the Supreme Court of Russia, carries many dangers for the Crimean Tatar movement. The solution, in our view, unlawful and unjustified.

Vladimir Kara-Murza, a senior: Let’s report by our correspondent Ivan Voronin evening rally Muscovites at the Solovetsky stone.

Valery Nadezhdin, civic activist: Authorities unprofitable to keep this in mind – too obvious parallels, I think. That is, in 1944, were deportirovany180 thousand Crimean Tatars. I believe that this is an act of genocide. This is exactly what applies to crimes against humanity. Now we see that the Crimean Tatar population in Crimea is subjected to harassment, repression, since it does not agree with the annexation of the Crimea. And willy-nilly these parallels. And the community is very important to demonstrate their attitude to what is incarcerated people that these people are really hard hit and under the Communist regime, and continue to suffer today. According to the degree of repression of Crimea ahead of all Russian regions. That is why we are here today.

Vera Lavreshina, civic activist: People are living in constant fear. This was stated by Mustafa Dzhemilev. He asked not to leave the Crimean Tatars from the Crimea, to suffer a little bit, because it is their land. And the leaders of the banned now with some article of the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar – although this is a completely peaceful organization – is hoping that the Crimean Tatar people will be given the status of the indigenous population, and they will receive autonomy within Ukraine. This will protect them from the terrible persecutions of the extrusion from the country that is now the case. That is, of course, deportation is still no, maybe, maybe not, but people just squeeze persecution, they fear. About 10 thousand Crimean Tatars had already left.

We join the action “We – the Crimean Tatars”, announced in Kiev. 15th of the campaign was launched to support the Crimean Tatar people. We in Moscow are participating in this too. We want peace Crimean land, so there was no war. This is a heavenly place. And why it has become an arena for wars and persecution? This must stop. There violated international law.

Vladimir Kara-Murza, a senior: We have a direct connection Viktor Girzhov, co-chairman of the organization “Ukrainians of Moscow”.

Victor G. why, after the annexation of Crimea to Russia the Crimean Tatars were again subject to persecution?

Victor Girzhov: Indeed, history is repeating itself. After 70 years of deportation, which took place on May 18-20, 1944, in the spring of 2014 began the annexation of the Crimea, in fact – the occupation. And it turned out for local residents, the local ethnic group of Crimean Tatars again big problems. In this statement, the Ukrainian Foreign Ministry in connection with the anniversary of the genocide of the Crimean Tatars has been told that during the occupation of the peninsula had already left about 20 thousand Tatars. By the way, the European Parliament also expressed concern about the brutal fact of the Tatars, detention, prohibition of the memorial and commemorative events.

All this is done in order to frighten the Crimean Tatars, to squeeze them from the peninsula. Because they – like a bone in the throat of the Russian government, because the vast majority of Crimean Tatars actively support Ukraine. They do not accept and can not accept the annexation of the peninsula and do everything in order to reclaim their homeland under the flag of Ukraine.

According to one of the Ukrainian channels on the eve of the film was shown “Haytarma” where very figurative art shows those tragic days, which worried the Crimean Tatar people in the 44th year.

Eurovision finals won Jamal Tatar. And the Russian media propaganda trying to challenge, neutralize the victory. But this is a great victory, which is in memory of the Crimean Tatar people Jamal won the eve of the 72th anniversary of the tragic events that are repeated again.

Vladimir Kara-Murza, a senior: Alexander, remind, please, the plot of the film “Haytarma”.

Alexander Cherkasov: The film “Haytarma” – almost a documentary. Indeed, there was a man – twice Hero of the Soviet Union pilot Amet-Khan Sultan, who was in the Crimea during the deportation and tried to save from deportation for his family. Well, twice Heroes are not deported, it happened. And there is a history of these days. The film would be very understandable simple Russian audience. This film is very Soviet – about the common struggle against fascism. There appear and French pilots. This is an exaggeration, there is “Norman – Neman” was not at war, but it was a common struggle against fascism. Suddenly, amidst this general struggle goes some black nightmare crime. No there is solid black and white, because there is a man, in fact, Amet-Khan, fleeing from persecution in this film. The film is well shot. It is a strong film, it, in my opinion, you can twist and on our television, Children should be shown. This past shown in language understandable to 86 percent of the population.

Amet-Khan Sultan had not been deported. Then he was even taken, in my opinion, the detachment cosmonaut training as a flight instructor, was a test pilot. But this plight. His name until recently was named the airport in Makhachkala, because it is Avar half. Now, it seems, in the Simferopol airport named after him. But this man has gone through very hard that he did not share their fate with all the exiled people.

If we talk about the current situation, now we are talking about dozens of people prosecuted. There are different things. And the point of the riots February 26, 2014, when the Crimea is still on any law was not Russian, but some participants in clashes near the building of the Crimean parliament on trial under Russian law. If this were a riot, then perhaps they involved people from both sides, but the judge delayed only on one side. Jurisdiction is not very clear.

Even less clear jurisdiction in another case, which, in fact, zalozhnicheskoe. Son Mustafy Dzhemileva now sits in the Russian camp. What is sitting? Manslaughter. The murder of a citizen of Ukraine by another citizen of Ukraine. A criminal case was opened Ukrainian justice. And then “our Crimea” – and then re-classified, according to the Russian plant has the same content article and send it to serve his sentence in a Russian colony. Well, all the concepts, all the laws, it would need to transfer to serve his sentence Ukraine. And in fact we have a hostage. Not good!

There are cases against members of “Hizb ut-Tahrir.” It is the Islamic community was not prohibited in Ukraine, there is a fairly large community. Can be a lot of stars on the shoulder straps to get, you can work long, landing members of the organization, which Russia recognized as a terrorist (it is not clear on what grounds), just for the very membership in this organization.

But now the group – members of a large Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people and all regional Mejlis. After the recognition of his extremist organization, if the decision to approve Russia’s Supreme Court, it will be possible to judge each of the members of the Majlis for any act. We have also a very advanced anti-extremist legislation. We can say: “What did you do, and you’re doing it for a reason, and as a member of the Majlis, as a member of a proscribed organization Maybe, you did nothing illegal, but as a member of a proscribed organization you for that ponesesh responsibility.”. And representatives of the Crimean Tatar people, about 2 thousand people. You can make a career for many people who go there to establish the Russian legislation. Why they went there – it’s a separate issue.

I told the Moscow Crimean Tatar, a member of one of the Crimean Tatar organizations, that his supervisor from the FSB, which is sometimes interested in the affairs of their organization, before being sent on a mission to Crimea asked: “And what are the tapes from the Crimean Tatars?” Tapes Crimean Tatars – a good preparation! Visible School Chechen wars and seen the deep “knowledge of the subject.” But the car is running, it works. Now dozens of people covered by this machine … There are two cases of “Hizb ut-Tahrir”, one investigated, the other at the beginning. There are people who have disappeared in the first weeks and months after the annexation of the peninsula. Some of them then found murdered. There are such words – “terror”, “fear”. And if today people came despite the ban – it is very important. Because the memory of the people is very strong – not only the tragedy of the 44th year, but also a very long struggle to return to their homeland, and that made them such a people. It is a memory that this fight all the time was a non-violent, was not directed against anyone, but is aimed at the restoration of their rights.

Vladimir Kara-Murza, a senior: Alexander recalled the repression machine which re-launched the Russian administration. Victor G. why you banned for five years from entering into the Russian Federation?

Victor Girzhov: There traced some parallels. I also deported. I was banned from entering for five years because, as the Tatars, I defended the interests of Ukraine, tried on the central radio and television channels to tell the truth about the events that happened in the Crimea, Donbass. Of course, it is the Kremlin did not like, they have suffered as much as they could, and then decided that I should be deported from here, so I did not participate in the programs, not writing articles and so on. Therefore, I can not come to any family or friends. I understand the problems when people gets away from their families, deprived of homes, jobs, their homes and sent to the cars in some Kazakh steppes. Incidentally, in the first months of displacement, killing about 30,000 Tatars.

I think that the Tatars will continue their struggle. Indeed, this freedom-loving people. And the whole world and all progressive organizations, human rights defenders have to raise a wave of protest against the violation of humanitarian human rights in Crimea, against the ethnic Tatars, against violations of the law, including the Convention on Human Rights and the small people and so on.

Now it seems that Russia, the Kremlin is actively returning to the Stalinist authoritarian and repressive government format. By the way, in the Crimea organized repression not only against the Tatars, completely changed the situation compared to that which was when the Crimea was Ukrainian territory. The Cossacks came out to protest against the closure there is some kind of college. The campaign must have been inconsistent. And the police broke up a very tough this rally. Cossacks shouted: “We are fighting, we are waiting for you!” That is, they actively participated in the annexation of the Crimea. And, as they say, for that we fought for it and ran. If before they went any slogans, any flags, and it was possible, it is very tough repressive machine works against almost everything that has something to protest the beginning.

Vladimir Kara-Murza, a senior: What other ethnic groups are fellow sufferers of the Crimean Tatars?

Alexander Cherkasov: All I will not list. But if we talk about the most mass deportations – is Balkars and Karachai, Chechens, Ingush, Chechens Akkin living in Dagestan, the Kalmyks, the Soviet Germans. It is not only the Crimean Tatars, but also many other smaller nations, from which also “smoothed” Crimea. It Meskhetian Turks deported from Georgia. Among other things, they are still unable to return to their homeland. They have prevented the independent Georgia. It Koreans. They are the ones who were deported sploshnyakom on the patterns of colonial practices.

But the unique Crimean Tatars? They were not allowed back in the late ’50s. And they launched initially quite Loyalist movement. Lenin allowed the autonomy of the Crimean Tatars, Stalin abolished it. Restore the Leninist national policy – visit of the delegation to Moscow, their records … They planted. And in 60-80 years, developed a core of leaders, time-tested. Mustafa Dzhemilev in the amount of, I think, 15 years spent in prisons and camps. now it seems to have been his sixth process. Developed a practice of non-violent action.

All Crimean Tatars remember Musa Mamut. I think it was the 77th year. Musa Mamut came back to Crimea, to construct the second time. He had already returned – he himself planted, all destroyed, the family was evicted. He came back again. And again came to evict him. He doused himself with gasoline and set on fire. When the Crimean Tatars back in the late 80’s – early 90’s, they tried to drive out the local police, they doused himself with gasoline – and the police retreated, because they knew that they would go to the end, but not to use violence against others. This non-violent movement.

This movement is unique in that it has established the Majlis. Imagine, people scattered throughout the Soviet Union, in different places. Elections were held, selected Kurultais that provide maximum representation of all communities. At the Kurultai were elected Majlis. And it’s all generally provide self-organization in returning people to the Crimea and the peace process in the late 80’s – early 90-ies. After all, if the Crimean Tatar squatting and samostroi tried to destroy.

Once, after a particularly brutal massacre in the village of Red Paradise in Alushta region of Tatars gathered in the huge rally in Simferopol. And suddenly spontaneous crowd movement was captured by the Houses of Parliament. Mustafy Dzhemileva one word was enough: “Back!” – and they departed, returned, not to cross the line of the war. This is the only case in my memory in such conflict zones, where the leaders of the national movement kept its people from conflict.

And then there were many problems. Ukrainian authorities especially the Crimean Tatars do not complain. Status, there was no money. The problems were: in places of deportation to Uzbekistan, they lived among the people, related by language, there is a language among others. We need to create the school. And what money .. A third of the people could not leave the places of deportation from Central Asia – no money. But still Majlis tried to solve these problems. There were different costs, which criticized the Majlis. But most of all it was unjust accusations that it is some extremists, enemies of other nations, and so on. For many years I spoke with the Crimean Tatars in Crimea, – and with the leaders of the Majlis, and the common people. And I can say that all the stream that flowed from the Russian channels on the Crimean Tatars – it was mostly nonsense.

And the current Majlis. He was elected, in my opinion, in 2013. Who is the Majlis? All the people – about 230 thousand people. The elections at the Kurultai took about 90 thousand people. Given that most of the people are minors, it is clear that most of the adult population has been presented at the Kurultai. And in general, do not take into account the Majlis would be very strange.

But the Russian authorities everywhere are now fears of self-organization of people – whether it be the Cossacks, whether Crimean Tatars. And this self-organization and is, apparently, from the standpoint of our government, threatening. Therefore, the prohibition of the Mejlis – a very strange from a legal point of view. For example, the Majlis is charged with any decisions Refat Chubarov. At the same time without any expertise. This is a value judgment of the court. Crimea is charged with energy blockade. The fact of the matter is that it is perhaps not a good thing, but it is not described by the concept of “extremism”. Many things strange in the fact that the Crimean Tatar Mejlis was charged before being banned.

This is faulty from the legal point of decision is likely to be confirmed by the Supreme Court. And representatives of the people will be in limbo. Not because they want to deport all. Still another mode. And because all want to make them feel in an unsafe position. But the Crimean Tatars have decades of nonviolent struggle. And I really hope that people here will do his. About the Soviet government said that it forever, until it ended. And in this day of memory and grief, you can think about what the future holds for those who defend the right cause.

Vladimir Kara-Murza, a senior: Why The Kremlin creates the Crimean Tatar people from an enemy?

Victor Girzhov: The Kremlin is very favorable external and internal enemies, the more of them the better. Because it is an opportunity to retain power in the country. While the electorate, while the population has actively supported this line and agree that the terms of some enemies, and the blame for all Americans, and Kiev fascists generally oppress the Russian-speaking population (although at the front, in my opinion, most of the Russian-speaking people fighting for their land) – this will be beneficial to look for internal and external enemies. And here the Crimean Tatar ethnic group according to the logic is the enemy, because they do not support the current regime. The same will happen with the external – America, Ukraine, some countries that have imposed sanctions, and so on. This will all be heated, be promoted. abstracts will be maintained: “We could develop, thrive, but we always someone interferes.” Well, logic is very propaganda. There is no real reason to have any.

We must live in peace, to respect the rights and laws, including international ones, and cooperate to develop the economy. And if most of the budget pie goes to propaganda and weapons to the outbreak of conflicts in various regions, the economy will not be any. That’s what the enemy – all this to justify.

Vladimir Kara-Murza, a senior: And how successful attempts of the Kremlin to revive outdated cliché that the Crimean Tatars were accomplices of the Nazis, and continue to defame this people?

Alexander Cherkasov: It’s hard to say what today are no comments to this date in the Russian “News”. And maybe there will be no. Because such a large problem easier to shut up. For many years, the Crimean Tatars were a source of danger in the modern Crimea, where the Russian people better not to go, when the Crimea was under the jurisdiction of Ukraine. We repeated all sorts of allegations that it was during the Great Patriotic War.

But really all it was. After the occupation of the Crimea in the 41 th year of the Germans needed the support of the counterinsurgency fight for. From whom it is possible to create these auxiliary parts? From villagers in the mountainous and wooded terrain. These were the Crimean Tatars. On the other hand, collaborators among other nations had enough, and among the Russian, Ukrainians, Cossacks. The Soviet government was able to create enemies. Collaboration with the Nazis was in a variety of nations.

But instead of identifying the perpetrators of the crime, the whole nation was charged with the same brush. Collective responsibility – collective punishment. And that, for the Russian side or Cossack units that fought under the Nazi banner, must meet all Russian or all of the Don Cossacks? It is unlikely that someone would agree. Responsibility is always individual. And the subsequent clumsy attempts to put all of the Crimean Tatars collaborated with the Nazis were clearly exposed in Soviet times. The documents listed in the 31 edition of “Chronicle of Current Events”, published in the 74th year, was enough material about the Crimean Tatars, who participated in partisan units and in the Red Army.

And in the modern Sevastopol is possible to go into a very nice museum – the Museum of the Underground. Not from the top to create, and emerged in the city, which is occupied by the enemy, which began with the help of the prisoners and the wounded, grew into something more. There’s a name, you can go and browse. Among the partisans and underground many of the Crimean Tatars. There is much to take the children and show them the truth – that this museum, created in Soviet times. Perhaps, through personal stories can be attributed to modern children and adults, that all really was not the case, and there is no such that all the people was a criminal, it is unjust, when all the people responsible.

I have many times in recent years has been in the Crimea. And leave their children somewhere under the Christmas tree at the rally, where Crimean Tatars – it’s okay, because here nothing will happen to them. Yes, there were some hotheads in the Crimean Tatar movement of the past two or three decades. But it is individuals. On the whole, it was a movement that sought to solve the problems of his people after his return to the promised land, which is not oozing with milk and honey.

Vladimir Kara-Murza, a senior: Since we have a direct link came Refat Chubarov, the politician, the public figure, chairman of the Mejlis of the Crimean Tatar people.

Refat, I know that your fellow citizens do not recognize the jurisdiction of the Russian court. Maybe they ask for protection of their rights in the European Court of Human Rights?

Refat Chubarov: We use various options to protect our rights. Of course, we do not recognize the jurisdiction of the Russian court. Actually, we do not recognize the fact of the illegal annexation of Crimea by the Russian Federation. And from here, and everything else is our attitude. Nevertheless, we will use a variety of tools and options, not so much in order to protect their rights. In the current regime in Russia itself, no one can protect their rights. And we can already say with certainty in advance what will be the solution of various appeals.

We want to show our Western partners, especially politicians, that no discussion of the possibility of a dialogue with Russia is impossible. The fact that some of our partners say: “Try to find at least some opportunities for dialogue in the occupied Crimea, to minimize the repression of the Crimean Tatars.” And what they show? Mrs. Poklonsky?

Vladimir Kara-Murza, a senior: Today in our program were sequences on solidarity Muscovites repressed people – Crimean Tatars. Relevant whether the slogan “For our freedom and yours”, which once advanced Russian fighters against totalitarianism, against the tyranny of protecting the rights of the peoples of the Russian Empire, “prison of peoples”?

Refat Chubarov: First of all I would like to thank sincerely everyone who goes out in the conditions of Moscow in defense of not only their rights but also the rights of other peoples, of other people. This is an incredibly courageous people. And I really hope that someday I will have the opportunity to each of them personally to shake hands and say “thank you.”

Of course, the slogan that has long been known not only in the Soviet Union, it has been used in Poland and Czechoslovakia, then still in the socialist countries – it is now more relevant than ever. The fact that this slogan had several meanings: not only underline the need for a joint struggle, but also the realization that without the freedom of the other you can not be free itself. This is especially true now for the Russian society, which is suppressed, largely demoralized. And many citizens of Russia, I think (if I’m wrong, I’d be happy about it), did not represent the direction of the aspirations of Ukrainians, Lithuanians, Moldovans. They seem to be something that these people seek – it is some kind of pseudo-values. I would very much like to see the slogan “For our freedom and yours” united people, and each of the companies would make cleaner,

Sourse, 18/05/2016