The fact that in Europe, in fact, think about Ukraine

Karel Schwarzenberg, an aristocrat and friend of the legendary Czech President Vatslava Gavela, recalls the stories told in politics usually behind closed doors

Karel Schwarzenberg, 79-year-old Czech politician and diplomat, best known for having twice been Minister of Foreign Affairs of the Czech Republic. However, in his biography, there are more interesting facts.

In the 80 Schwarzenberg, head of the International Helsinki Committee for Human Rights. Held talks on human rights in the Soviet Union, Bulgaria, Kosovo. And in the early 1990s he was chancellor under Czech President Vatslave Gavele, a dissident and moral authority. Moreover, Schwarzenberg and Havel linked not only work, but also friendship.

Unlike Havel, who comes from a family of entrepreneurs and intellectuals in Schwarzenberg aristocratic lineage rooted in the XV century. His family was part of the ruling elites in the era of the Habsburgs and the Austro-Hungarian Empire, and he carries the title of prince.

Despite his age, Schwarzenberg continues to actively engage in politics. And in the 2013 presidential election was the only opponent of the current president of the Czech Republic Milos Zeman, slightly losing to him. Today he is the head of the Foreign Affairs Committee of the Chamber of Deputies of the Parliament and leader of the center-right political party TOP 09, the fourth most popular in the country.

Prince prefers to wear three-piece suits and ties instead of butterflies, smokes a pipe and has an excellent sense of humor. At the last parliamentary elections he ran under the slogan: “When others talk nonsense, I sleep”, hinting at the pictures of different meetings, where he sat with his eyes closed.

Schwarzenberg strongly supports Ukraine and is in the country annually. This time – with an official visit. With HB it is found in the lobby of the hotel Ukraine on Independence Square, where he stopped after a trip to the Slavic and Kramatorsk and before flying to Prague.

Five questions Karel Schwarzenberg:

Your greatest achievement? 
It was not in politics but in his personal life, but I can not say anything about it.

The biggest failure? 
In the late 80s, I, as head of the Helsinki Committee, spent a month in Kosovo and watched the deterioration of relations between Serbia, Croatia, Slovenia and other republics. I spoke with all parties. But no one wanted to make concessions. I was trying to get to the settlement of the conflict the West. But things have developed rapidly and eventually led to the tragedy. It is awful – be aware of what can happen, and not be able to prevent it.

What do you get around the city? 
I do not drive a car because I did not hear very well. But when I lived in Vienna, I went to the MINI. This supercar for the city.

Last book you read that made an impression? 
Bloody ground Timoti Snaydera. Very sad book.

Who would you shake hands? 
As an individual – a lot of people. But the diplomat is in the prostitute. We work mainly in the evenings and on weekends, in beautiful hotels around the world, do not choose our partners and we can not deny. You have to deal with people you deeply despise, and privately I would never shake hands with them, but in doing its work, should.

– Last time you were in Ukraine a year ago. Do you see any positive changes?

– Not so much. The last time I was only in Kiev and western Ukraine. This time even visited Kharkiv and the Donbass. Changes happen, but slowly.

– You could call the main, in your opinion, the reasons which hamper the development of Ukraine?

– The first and the main thing – to fight corruption in the courts, the police and so on. I know what kind of a cancer, since in our country the same problem, inherited from the communist past.

The second – to reduce bureaucracy. This is poison for a successful economy and a barrier for any business. Look at the countries that have successfully coped with this problem: these investments immediately went.

– They say that for this to happen, Ukraine needs Vaclav Havel.

– I think it’s [ Vatslav Gavel ] – rare success. Czech Republic very lucky. But do not blindly copy the experience of others. Each country must find its use of the talents of people and look for the leaders among them. Such a person may well be “the guy from next door.”

– What are the key qualities of a this “guy”?

– He must have a clear vision of the future of the country, of where he wants to lead, and the ability to do it. It must also be endowed with charisma – is the key to the location of people. And third – it should love these people.

– And it needs to be an effective commander in chief, because the conflict in the Donbass does not subside, Minsk agreements do not work. You have your own exit formula of this crisis?

– Exit [ this crisis ] is blocking Russia, which does not keep its promises. Now they say that the need to hold elections in the Donbass. I know how the Russian president is able to manipulate the electoral process and do not believe in free elections, even if the presence of Ukrainian and international observers. The issue of elections may appear on the agenda only after the withdrawal of Russian troops.

– What are your impressions of the visit to the Donbass?

– a strong impression form of the set of destroyed houses in the cities we visited, and a huge queue at the checkpoint [ Zaitseva, Donetsk region ]. We talked to people on both sides of the border, they say they are tired of war, trying to survive, but their problems are not interesting. Perhaps politicians – Ukrainian and European – it would be necessary to go and see more often, to see what is really happening there.

– With such a neighbor like Russia, which security strategy should choose Ukraine?

– Increase the defenses of its own army. The possible accession of Ukraine to NATO now, I do not see. Try to enter into agreements with individual countries, do not focus only on NATO. It is necessary to complete the reform of the army and become a reliable partner for its allies.

– Ukraine is now difficult and painful, but saying goodbye to the Soviet past. In the Czech Republic, which was held this way for a long time, there is nostalgia for the USSR?

– Of course. Mainly in older people. They are nostalgic about the time of his youth. But many of them – 15-18%. I well remember how in the 50’s, 60’s and 70’s in Italy developed the Italian Social Movement, neo-fascist organization, formed by followers of Benito Mussolini. Their level of support was about the same as that of the Communist Party of the Czech Republic – all of the same plus or minus 15%.

– The victory of President Milos Zeman, known for his pro-Russian position – a consequence of this nostalgia? How can you explain its popularity?

– This is a smart and talented populist, he flatters the people, trying to prove that he is really a man of the people. The people believe that it is the same as they are, so it is they like.

I remember a story told me Yan Langosh, the first interior minister of Czechoslovakia after the Velvet Revolution in 1989. He is resting with his friend in a small wine village near Bratislava, he spoke about politics. And this friend of his began to sharply criticize Vladimir Meciar [ in the period 1990-1998, three times served as Prime Minister of Slovakia, and was twice. about. President of Slovakia ], notorious populist. Lángos asked, “So why did you vote for him?” And he replied: “Because it is exactly the same kokot [ translated from Slovak – male sex organ ], as I do.” This story explains why it is so popular Zeman.

– How different is the modern Czech Republic from that of which Havel dreamed?

– There is a big difference. Vaclav Havel had underestimated how much money changes people, their personalities and behavior. In a country where communism rules for a long time, money has become a temptation. It was like the Eskimos, who contracted the flu. Ordinary Europeans for the deadly disease of the Eskimos, because they have no immunity to it.

– What the Czechs think about Ukraine?

– There is a strong pro-Russian minority, which appeared under the influence of Russian propaganda, but the majority supports Ukraine.

– There is much talk about the West’s weariness with Ukraine. That discredit Ukraine in the eyes of the inhabitants of the countries of Europe, including the Czech Republic?

– Czech businessmen say that there a terrible corruption. Frustration associated with slow progress in reforms, even gave rise to the idiom – Ukraine’s Fatigue (fatigue from Ukraine). For many the question arises: if they can not overcome the corruption and deal with the oligarchs, why should we support them?

– Ukraine has always had close ties with Russia. Today, many reject Russian culture, but continued to speak in Russian. How do you assess this process? You do not see the contradiction here?

– No wonder: the Russian language – the beautiful, and in some regions of Ukraine it is spoken for a long time. But any decolonization process takes time. When the fallen British, Spanish, French Empire, the inhabitants of their former colonies did not immediately began to think independently. In Ukraine, the same thing happens. There is nostalgia for the past, people resist change, they frighten many. But decolonization process is irreversible.

You know, I think that the traditional division of Europe into Slavic, Germanic and Romance nations is meaningless. I believe that this is one of the most correct classifications – alcoholic. Czechs, Germans, Danes – beer nation. Spaniards and Italians – wine. Ukrainians in this sense, are similar, such as Scandinavia, Poland – a nation of vodka. But now in Ukraine already emerging generation of wine – in the south of Ukraine.

– By the way, on the south. You see the return of the Crimea prospect in the Ukraine?

– Yes, but it will take a very long time. As long as Putin – the boss in Moscow, this deep crisis will continue. But even with the change of regime the chances are slim. I have been in the Crimea, and know how oppressed the Crimean Tatars. Similarly, they are oppressed today. This is a real tragedy.

– In 1980 you headed the Helsinki Committee for Human Rights. What is the situation, in your opinion, the situation with human rights in Ukraine? What place we occupy on this criterion among post-Soviet countries?

– Of all the post-Soviet countries in this respect, Ukraine is better than others, though not perfect. You’re dealing with the legacy of the old system and can not suddenly change completely the police and the courts. That, because of what any other country would have appeared monstrous scandal, is still the norm in Ukraine – such as bullying by the police. You still valid “telephone justice” in the courts. It is necessary that a new generation was born that would change the attitude towards this issue, recognizing that human rights – this is basic stuff. But I repeat: we need time. Western Europe needed the approval of at least 50 years of democracy.

Sourse, 03/06/2016