On the situation in Russia and about the prospects of the Russian protest movement

Public administration in Russia is falling apart, and Putin is increasingly concentrating power in his hands, finally turning into an autocrat. Why would the Russian presidenthas abolished the Crimean Federal District and established a large-scale reshuffle of governors how things work with freedom of speech and human rights in Russia, the Ukrainian edition of “Apostrophe” said a well-known Russian human rights activist, leader of the movement “For Human Rights” and a member of the Moscow Helsinki Group, Lev Ponomarev .

– Lev Aleksandrovich, let us start with the most obvious question at this point. Why Vladimir Putin deprived the status of Crimea “Federal District” and added it to the Southern Federal District?

– My opinion as a layman is: Crimea management really falling apart. And that, in general, is not surprising, because the government of the state – the Russian Federation – is falling apart. We see that just recently come to replace the governors siloviki. Well, so what happens in the Crimea … It is clear that there is this question even more aggravated. The power belongs to, on the one hand in the Crimea, “officials” who are now received a “destination.” On the other, it is clear that there is large influence of criminals, which was quite significant and in Ukrainian times. In addition, there were still people who helped overcome the Crimea by force of arms. Therefore, the situation on the peninsula even more acute than in Russia. Because Menyailo out and removed.

There is another factor that is very important, it seems to me – the people there are more free than in Russia. Because we have the power of 15 years of presses our wonderful country and brainwashed by television federal channels, and 86% of Russians, so to speak, maintain power. But how many Crimeans now supporting the Russian government – I honestly do not know. When Ukraine where people feel free enough, a lot of pressure on them was not. And this feeling of freedom they have not yet disappeared. But in a conversation with me, some people from the Crimea already saying: accession to Russia, apparently, was a mistake. They continue to support the transfer of Crimea to Russia, but they understand that the amount of freedom they will take. This they already feel on the skin.

That is a factor (freedom of Crimean) of course, also very important. Therefore, Putin has decided to tighten control of the Crimea closer to Moscow, therefore, included in the Southern District. To manage other officials who have become skilled in combat, security techniques, learned to solve complex problems in the Caucasus. There (in the Crimea), too, a kind of smoldering civil war. That is, from the point of view of the president and strongman, these solutions are fully justified.

– Refat Chubarov wrote that the way Moscow wants to impose a single, unified Russian policy in the Crimea. It is true, in your opinion?

– Yes, I think that the logic is as follows. But they will face – and have already experienced – with a special mentality of the Crimean people. People who for that Crimea was part of Russia, feel free enough to hold protests. In the same Moscow the situation is more complicated.

– Why Putin on the same day a number of personnel changes, I mean change of governors?

– This due to the fact that Putin is more and more concentrating control of the country in their hands, and puts the people there that he personally trusts more. This, of course, causes the neglect of the people who live in these regions. He does not ask, does not consult with them; officials do not go running in, come from somewhere from the side. Of course, it all looks utterly ridiculous when Menyailo, which apparently is not very well supervised Sevastopol, tied for the Siberian Federal District – is a humiliation Siberian District residents. I think that many out there understand this, because now Siberia looser than the central regions of Russia.

– As in Russia, with the exception of the narrow circles of human rights, related to the problem of human rights violations in the Crimea?

– I honestly do not notice that this issue has been in the public sphere, unfortunately. Not that I was defending Russian journalists and human rights, but so many problems in Russia that all is simply not enough time and effort. If we talk about human rights defenders, then I react when I was there the treatment. I have had several cases related to the Crimea. We are engaged in and the rights of military personnel, as if you do not would like to hear. After all, they – the Russians, too, their rights have been violated, and the movement “For Human Rights” to protect all Russians, wherever they are. With your (Ukraine) point of view, they are invaders. And my, they, although I believe that the Crimea was annexed illegally, – the Russians, who are somewhere far away. I wrote his wife a letter and a lot of pilots were asked to put things in order, because their husbands disappear for a day at work, violate labor laws against them. My co-worker went to the Crimea, there talked with the leaders, and the situation is pretty much allowed.

They turned to me and the journalists who lost their jobs in the independent media. And they have agreed to be members of “For Human Rights” movement newspaper. That is, I am ready to defend the interests of the people there, despite the fact that the Crimea passed to Russia illegally.

In general, the Crimea became a floating aircraft carrier, so there is more tightly monitor the people who are engaged in the protection of rights. That’s why people are afraid to do it.

– Speaking of journalists. Terrible murder Pavel Sheremet – whether it is beneficial to Vladimiru Putinu? And can there be any involvement in the Moscow, in your opinion?

– I was very little sign of Pavel. Of course, I strongly sympathize with his common-law wife and family.

If we talk about how it is beneficial to Putin or not, I believe that in this case, has its own “for” and “against.” “Collective Putin” is beneficial because it will destabilize the situation in Ukraine. As if to say that the authorities in Kiev, Poroshenko not control the situation. On the other hand, it is not profitable, because the Pasha really was a friend of Boris Nemtsov, and when such a bright figure destroyed – only one opinion that “collective Putin” is profitable, spoken aloud, the Kremlin harm. It says that the FSB continues to muddy the waters and cause an even greater hatred of Russia. It is clear that such a position is immediately picked up by the Ukrainian media and spun to cause more hatred for Russia. In this sense, it is murder Putin unprofitable.

– Now often called the names of other journalists, who at various times have left Russia to Ukraine. Their life is now really under threat?

– Yes, a direct analogy is possible. Journalists, which in relation to Russia occupy a position in condemning the military conflict with Ukraine, apparently now have to fear for their lives. But it may kill them both with one and with the other hand. It is clear that this may be the most visible representatives of provocation radicals to incite hatred towards Russians and Russia. Those who think nothing of killing a man. And such is undoubtedly there. But it can also be the operation of Russian special services. If we consider how Pavel Sheremet sacred sacrifice Ganapolsky and other risks may be wary of your life – it’s quite obvious. Politkovskaya’s murder, as well as other political assassinations in Russia, exactly the same can be seen.

– How would you describe the situation with the media in Russia. Take the scandal with RBC. Are there prerequisites to say that the situation is getting worse?

– Of course, it is deteriorating with each passing month. And talking about it is not only the events in the RBC. According to leaks from the meeting in this edition and the discussion that this leak has caused the journalistic community, we see that the situation has worsened. However, this does not mean that RBC immediately became ill. I would be very ungrateful readers and viewers, if so told. I see that they continue to work well. It’s not so catastrophically looks like we predicted. But in general, the media situation is getting worse – it’s obvious.

I do not agree with many radical statements, for example, of the “Echo of Moscow”. It seems that the “Echo of Moscow” and Aleksey Venediktov sold. I know that there have not censor. I know that it is – is still a place where the opposition can speak quite rigidly.

While freedom of speech is preserved, perhaps because the government considers it important or afraid. It is clear that it can destroy the independent press with one stroke of the pen. But does not (thank goodness). Power manipulates, and gives a clear signal that if the elections would be “more honestly count the votes.” I – generally a supporter of the view that in Russia change towards democracy can not happen quickly. Therefore, we must step by step – to every person who considers himself a supporter of liberal values, patience and doing his job. But do not rush and do not speak radically, destroying maybe this slow and consistent performance.

– You have said that freedom of speech is preserved – yet. What is the risk that Russia will move from autocracy to a totalitarian state?

– The risk is huge. The behavior of the president, I also see great risks: it seems to me, for some leakage of information, fewer and fewer people are affected by its decisions. In a sense, decisions are made by one person, and this is already a autocratic power. The monarch may take any decision at any time. I, frankly, do not really understand what was happening to him.

Although the institutions have remained still from the time when he was listening to other people, while they are working, but it is possible that he does not pay attention to the work of these institutions. Works such as the Human Rights Council under the President. I must say, when council members meet with the President himself – you may be surprised – they tell him the absolute truth. They are not afraid to do it. Another thing that is said about the problems, but the solutions are not accepted. For example, we in the colonies and prisons kill people, investigators completely unbelted. In prison there are special torture “hut”. When this report to the president, he says, it should definitely fix changes the bosses. But the situation has not fundamentally changed. This is – a clear demonstration of the lack of political will, or that nothing can be changed in our country.

Continuation of the interview:

August 1 Moscow authorities have agreed to hold a rally against the so-called “law of Spring”, which is scheduled for August 9. Earlier, permission to have agreed a rally against the “anti-terrorism package” was canceled and the shares were held only in Novosibirsk, Yekaterinburg, Ufa, Kazan and other cities. As told by Lev Ponomarev, the Russian government is very afraid of the numerous peaceful protests. And therefore possible that the protesters among intelligence agencies introduce radical that they break the action and the authorities then able to use punitive measures.

– With regard to the theme of the resonance in Russia – the so-called “Spring Package”. Russian businessman, now émigré Evgeny Chichvarkin said that he had found in this package an item on the legalization of the Russian special services special operations, assassinations of people outside the country. What is the likelihood that this will happen in practice?

– Firstly, in practice, this is already happening. For example, in Qatar we did – killed Yandarbiyev, and it is known that it was the security services [a Chechen leader Zelimkhan Yandarbiyev, was killed in 2004]. But we can find other examples. Another thing is that it is as if illegally. At the same time, there are examples of other countries that are also engaged in such things – such as the United States. But, as I understand it, they have it legalized. America is a relatively democratic country, there is a strong civil society, and here (in Russia), I suspect, when all will be legalized, since the state is quite criminal, violates international norms (a vivid example – Crimea annexation), all this will be a challenge for the international democratic community . And, of course, it is dangerous.

– Like most Russians, supporting the authorities, have responded to the adoption of the “Spring Package”?

– Most, as usual, reacted indifferently, very few people know about it. About 40% had heard something about the “Spring Law”, and maybe half of them to follow this issue. Unfortunately, with the “laws of Spring” are fighting mostly human rights activists and the opposition. However, now it’s kind of made a more serous level – when the business began to struggle with it. They invested the money collected about one hundred thousand signatures in the official Internet resource. And if a hundred thousand, it should already be considered as a legislative initiative. It is good that joined the business, we have no such possibility. But I think that when the new State Duma, we will require that the “law of Spring” were reviewed for a variety of positions. A business will require that no longer accumulate information,

– In your blog you wrote that the government intentionally cancels protests, so that later, when the youth they still come out, apply a “legitimate” force against them, for example, as it was with the Ukrainian Evromaydanom. As long as your prediction was not confirmed [action against “Spring Package”, mostly illegal power, they were held in several cities, but the hard power scenario is not used]. Do you think that could still be ahead?

– For example, what happened earlier in the Swamp area was very similar to this. Perhaps the fact that it was a kind of rehearsal, and it can be considered in this respect “is not really a success” because not many people there took. But, on the other hand, it took about 30 people, so it can be considered a success. There were radicals, fortunately there were no bottles with the mixture, but the stones thrown by masked men, who have not been able to identify. Radical people are in any of the opposition media and these radicals should be (I’ll tell you his credo) under the control of the organizers of peaceful demonstrations, this is a very difficult task. There is some birth trauma, the organizers of the peace of the Maidan (Kiev) failed to take radicals under control. You may not agree, but I would argue that it was. And this, I believe, very hurt peace Maidan. Maybe the Russian security services helped the Ukrainian radicals all this stir. As a general rule, employees of special services are being introduced in the radical environment.

– Good. What would, in your opinion, is ended, “peace” Kiev euromaidan?

– It is certainly an interesting question. Perhaps the power of Yanukovych would have dragged on. Maybe peace would Maidan and agreed with Yanukovych to certain stringent conditions for early elections. Such a scenario would be quite possible, because everything was happening in the presence of international mediators.

In Russia, the whole experience maydanovsky studied, made any conclusions, radical experience already appreciated. Another thing is that without the experience of the Maidan in the Russian special services is always a desire to translate a peaceful protest in the radical scope to jail after all. And they, work out, and they partly succeeded in something like trying to do at the Swamp area.

– Major action against the “Spring Package” were held in several cities, except Peter, Krasnodar and Moscow. There until it went quite peacefully?

– They were not numerous actions, mainly pickets. And any destabilization is not threatened. What the authorities are afraid of? They are afraid to release a large number of people to peaceful action in major cities over one million people, such as Moscow, St. Petersburg and others.

In general, the authorities strongly oppose the illegal conduct of peaceful demonstrations, and it is a problem, which I do. Although the action against the “law of Spring” was political, it held the Progress Party. They stressed that this action is not in the context of the legal component of the “Spring Package”, but only on the Internet. And I can not understand why the authorities do not want her to agree. I, without any contact with the Progressive Party tried to do everything to enable its implementation. But it really was afraid that they can stir up there beating. If a lot of people will come, will block traffic accident can drive to some radicals. I believe that my fear was quite rational.

– You suggested “Dr. Lisa” – Yelizaveta Glinka – for the post of ombudsman for children, but she refused. While not approved candidates. What is the probability that the appointed senator Elena Mizulina? Or would be less demonstrative purpose?

– I do not know, because Mizulina has a very high status. As if it did not look defiant Russian society, it is quite likely. When Tatiana Moskalkova appointed to the post of Commissioner for Human Rights, I spoke quite tolerant. I said that if Moskalkova understand what a godsend it did take it as a winning ticket, it could well be a human rights defender. While it certainly is necessary to change the mentality, because the mentality of law enforcement officers and human rights is different. And I assume that this will happen. Even Mizulina may change. On the other hand, I know that she brought with her people from the police, and these people, this environment will be to interfere with her doing it – and certainly longer in the way.

I do not think that will appoint Moskalkova, but appointed. The very designation indicates that Mizulina can get the post of Ombudsman. But it would be better to appoint another person who is doing this, a person who is suitable for the human rights protection, and power. For some reason I thought that “Dr. Lisa ‘is suitable because it has worked in the human rights environment and shows that children can deal with. She went to Eastern Ukraine and export of children under bombardments. Elizabeth was not too energetically promoting its political position, and maybe it is not even publicly expressed. She worked earnestly with children, and the very nickname “Dr. Lisa” she earned before I met her. I think that it will work properly and will be acceptable for the authorities, and for human rights defenders.

– A recent survey, “Levada-center”, showed that 64% of Russians do not feel responsible for what is happening in the country and 73% of citizens believe that they can not influence the situation in Russia. This despair, or are they really trust the government?

– The issue is complex. Firstly, because the opinion polls – especially when asking questions concerning power, straining ordinary Russians. Since the power we have become increasingly autocratic, KGB and FSB generals are governors, the average Russian is annoying, and he says, just in case what they expect to hear from him.

Second, despair too. There are people who say “hopeless”. But I do not belong to them, and do not think that everything is hopeless. I think that sooner or later the country is free from this confusion, especially since we have the opportunity to do something. I have many colleagues say, my friends, that compare with today free to say anything and do even in the Brezhnev or Gorbachev in the early time when more people imprisoned for the policy. Of course, now just incomparably more freedom. So do we have a right to despair? Do we have the right to do the work that we feel able to do – to defend freedom and democracy in the country? So as we can, we want and we know? Do we have the right to give up, whether we have the right to go from here? We do not know the future, social processes are absolutely unpredictable: it happens that social explosions occur on purely emotional grounds. I do not think that we have a stable regime. And the more the regime itself does not feel stable, because we see all these permutations. Inside the top of the regime is a huge fight security forces, and all that is destroying the state. Therefore it is necessary to do their job.

– What is going on between the FSB and Investigative Committee? I am referring to the case of crime boss Shakro Young.

– I dont know. I do not have sources within the system. According to human rights work, I know that the security forces and intertwining of criminal bosses – everywhere. Of the publications that we have now become known, we can see that this is happening at the level of heads of the Investigative Committee and the crowned thieves. In fact, there is weaving all over the country: in any prison in any prison anywhere. Paradoxically, sometimes it even works for the good of man. Here is a vivid example will give you: drug transfer to the colony in principle impossible to bypass the administration – not proneseshsya. But, on the other hand, we know that the drugs are distributed fairly easily in many colonies, and it happens that the thief-in-law, when the colony falls, stops supply of drugs – is struggling with it and stops, even though the drugs received through the administration. It prohibits using drugs and deprives management of the institution large earnings through the flow of drugs. Such examples I know a lot.

– that the Kremlin is preparing for the elections? Certainly it has a purpose, that they preceded some international success, or something else that will distract from the elections.

– There are two possibilities. The first – a demonstrative international success, which shows the possibility of continuing the dialogue, Putin and the Russian authorities with the West. And he demonstrated in St. Petersburg, in the course of the Petersburg Economic Forum. But I think that would be a hybrid response. On the one hand, will be very successful steps in the dialogue with the West, which may be the undoubted success that everyone will say: “What Putin has done in the international arena.” And even I would say. But there will be further tightened the nuts inside the country. It – Hybrid answer that is happening now. Putin was in St. Petersburg at the same time (on the forum), and at the same time here, he signed the “law of Spring” – that’s what’s happening now.

– Does it even need it now, or the result of the elections is predetermined?

– I believe that the elections have to go. I’m campaigning for “Apple” and will agitate for “Apple”. The power of being open to the West and twisting nuts in Russia, it is still something similar to some movement toward democracy in Russia retains. This challenging game implies demonstration of certain freedoms. And the election is also necessary to pass over the Democrats. Despite the crackdown, the adoption of “Spring of the law”, it is possible that there will weaken slightly. How are they in one or more heads of these pros and cons are compensated, I do not know. I say that as many as possible of liberal views have to come to the polls and vote for liberal parties – either “apple” or of Parnassus.

Interview by Vladislav Kudric

Sourse, 02/08/2016